Railcard and Gold card query

[sot]

A quick query:

If a person holds a two together, and travels to a given station with their 'together' but then wishes to make further a further journey themselves alone using an alternate discount card, what happens?

Must 2 people exit the gate line?
Must the person exit and re-enter?

Extension to the question, what happens if rather than the two together it was an annual gold card with both people travelling on discounted fares to a break point then the card holder continues their journey onwards, whilst the noncardholder finishes their journey there?

It is a bit of a quandary, where is the demarcation of the journey? The train door? The platform? The gate line? What about in cases of no gateline? The railway building itself?

Sot

 

[Jan Mayen]

I'd say you'd need to stay together until the other person has passed through the gateline (or left the station if it doesn't have a gateline), just in case they need to show the relevant Railcard.

 

[sot]

I'd say you'd need to stay together until the other person has passed through the gateline (or left the station if it doesn't have a gateline), just in case they need to show the relevant Railcard.

With AGC I can see this but with regards a two together where both people have the card?

 

[JonathanH]

It is a bit of a quandary, where is the demarcation of the journey? The train door? The platform? The gate line? What about in cases of no gateline? The railway building itself?

The demarcation is either a gateline, or in the case of there being no gateline, the point at which any compulsory ticket area is left, and failing that the point on railway property at which it is obvious that there won't be a further ticket inspection.

With AGC I can see this but with regards a two together where both people have the card?

The tickets are only valid where two people are travelling. Therefore, essentially both tickets need to be shown at the gateline / final ticket checking point. Clearly the inspection may not actually be as rigorous as that, but if a rigorous inspection was happening, the inspector would expect to see two people presenting two tickets.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I don't know the actual Ts and Cs for a Two Together Railcard, but my assumption is that for a ticket to be valid you need to show the Railcard as well as the other person, together with their ticket.
Happy to corrected by someone who knows what a ticket inspector might want to see.

 

[sot]

That is the funny part though would it be mandatory for example both people from rugby to Milton Keynes then one person to Euston for both to exit the gateline and then the single travelling person to re-enter to 'validate' the other person's first leg?

 

[JonathanH]

That is the funny part though would it be mandatory for example both people from rugby to Milton Keynes then one person to Euston for both to exit the gateline and then the single travelling person to re-enter to 'validate' the other person's first leg?

Yes. If two passengers are travelling on a two together railcard from Rugby to Milton Keynes, one passenger wishes to leave the station at Milton Keynes, while the other travels to Euston, both passengers with both discounted tickets need to present them at the gatelibe at Milton Keynes.

If this isn't done, the risk to the passenger who is leaving the station at Milton Keynes is that they get accused of travelling on an invalidly discounted ticket at the gateline with no evidence they were using the ticket in a valid manner.

The reality is that 99 times out of 100 there will not be a detailed ticket check, but there is a risk there will be.

 

[sot]

Yes that is the problem, the individuals would be using the discounts legitimately but since it is 'too difficult' to police then they are unable to use them in this case.

I suppose it would open up to too much abuse.

 

[JonathanH]

It is clearly tricky, and the conditions of use for the railcard itself aren't explicit in saying you have to leave the station together, but gatelines and other types of station ticket checking create a need to present a ticket at the station, not just on the train.

https://www.twotogether-railcard.co.uk/help/terms-conditions/

4. Conditions of use of the Two Together Railcard

4.1. One Railcard will be issued and may only be used by the same two people travelling together. You must provide your names and photos at the time of purchase. Each of you must be aged 16 or over.

4.2. If you have a physical Railcard, each of you must sign the Railcard before use to show acceptance of the Railcard Conditions (see condition 2.1).

4.3. If you have a physical Railcard that you bought at a rail station, you must carry your separate Two Together Photocard that was issued at the time of purchase and you must present this in any circumstance where you present your physical Railcard (i.e. when buying tickets and travelling with Railcard discounted tickets).

4.4. Discounted tickets must be bought for both cardholders at the same time, and you must travel together.

4.5. Discounted tickets are not valid for travel between 04:30 – 09:29 hours, Monday to Friday, except on Public Holidays.

INFORMATION:

Discounted price tickets purchased by a Two Together Railcard holder should be issued for travel for the same origin and destination and should normally be of the same ticket type (example both Off-Peak Returns).

 

[zero]

https://www.twotogether-railcard.co.uk/help/terms-conditions/

Discounted price tickets purchased by a Two Together Railcard holder should be issued for travel for the same origin and destination and should normally be of the same ticket type (example both Off-Peak Returns).

Why would the ticket types ever need to be different?

 

[sot]

Don't some retailer allow.purchase of one ticket for a two together? I understand that it is against the terms. Kind of for the reverse of the situation I describe.

Journey from a to b to c where someone is travelling on their own undiscounted a to b and then the pair are traveling from b to c.

Then one person could be on advance purchase at a different price to the other. Also one on advance purchase other on a off peak or anytime due to the window or lack of advance availability.

 

[Haywain]

There must be two people travelling together both using (Two Together) railcard discounted tickets for each to be valid. I am struggling to think of a situation where the tickets would not be the same.

 

[Alex C.]

For the two together railcard, the terms say you must travel together (and tickets have to be bought at the same time). To me the 'travel' is the journey where you're on a train, but I could see an interpretation of it being the entire journey on railway premises.

That said, I think the issue is more of a practical one - how do you evidence you were travelling with someone at the time of travel. I can't imagine a prosecution would be in the public interest if you could demonstrate this - for example, if you were to take a short video on your phone showing the other passenger with their ticket and then you leaving the train whilst they stayed on.

 

[Haywain]

That said, I think the issue is more of a practical one - how do you evidence you were travelling with someone at the time of travel. I can't imagine a prosecution would be in the public interest if you could demonstrate this - for example, if you were to take a short video on your phone showing the other passenger with their ticket and then you leaving the train whilst they stayed on.

Maybe but the question you have to ask yourself is whether it is worth the hassle.

 

[Alex C.]

Maybe but the question you have to ask yourself is whether it is worth the hassle.

That's fair - I considered this a few weeks ago, I was travelling to Heathrow (a hotel) with my partner but had to go into a meeting for two hours in London on the way - it made sense for us to travel as far as Guildford together, and then her get the RailAir coach and me continue into London. Between us we possess a network railcard and a 26-30 railcard so we used those individually rather than our two together card - however if it had been outside the network area, we could have found ourselves having to use the two together card (or having to delay my journey into London to leave the train). It's definitely a niche question though.

 

[Class800]

There must be two people travelling together both using railcard discounted tickets for each to be valid. I am struggling to think of a situation where the tickets would not be the same.

What about when not using the railcard but using the Gold card?

 

[Paul Kelly]

What about when not using the railcard but using the Gold card?

With a Gold Card where the holder is travelling on a route covered by their annual season (and thus they don't need to purchase a separate ticket) then it is acceptable for the companion to have a different ticket. Not sure if that was the question though.

 

[Haywain]

What about when not using the railcard but using the Gold card?

I've edited my post to make clear for you that I was referring to a specific railcard.

 

[sot]

I don't think it can be retailed but I imagine if just one advanced fare was available then some argument could be made that someone would want that for one person then a flexible fare for the other person if there is a substantial difference in price.

My particular scenario involves making a goldcard eligible journey and collecting someone else on the way as a gold card accompanying fare.

I suppose likewise it would be beneficial for me to 'drop off' someone along a journey too.

 

[Leisurefirst]

I once had a ticket office in Scotland refuse to sell me a pair of Two Together tickets unless I got the other person to show their face in the ticket office with me too.

 

[miklcct]

Maybe but the question you have to ask yourself is whether it is worth the hassle.

The practical advice is to buy the Two Together Railcard discounted tickets to one stop short of where your partner wants to leave the train, a one-stop single for your partner and a normal ticket for you to continue your onward journey.