Railway efficiency

[Shrop]

I rarely use railways these days after retiring, but today I have, and little has changed since my regular usage. I remain convinced that on almost every journey there are things I see which could and should easily be improved. People are often quick to jump to the defence of poor operations saying that passengers don't know all the facts, but I remain convinced that many, if not most services could be easily improved with little cost, just a willingness to serve passengers, rather than the default primary motive of finding excuses to defend shoddy operations. Oh for a sensible discussion on this with people who actually want to see railways running efficiently!

 

[DerekC]

It would help if you were more specific about the areas where improvements could be made. Generalisations are not productive!

 

[3rd rail land]

What do you think could be 'easily improved'?

You've made a pretty general statement about the railway. Could you be more specific about your experience today and why you consider it to be a 'shoddy operation'?

 

[LAX54]

Railway runs on A.B.C Accurate Brief, Concise...seems the OP is a long way off this to start with !

 

[Shrop]

Today's trip was from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth and back, and all day long it seems that trains have been losing time throughout the route. Surely after many, many years of problems with slippery rails, that can't still be the excuse? When our train arrived back into Shrewsbury at 17.46, some 27 minutes late, you might think the reverse service to Aberystwyth would be champing at the bit to leave, yet it didn't leave until 17.55. Sense would suggest that it could have got as far as Sutton Bridge junction and been ready to lose no more time in which case it could have passed the opposing train at Talerddig. However, there seemed to be an air of despondency about the whole operation, ie there wasn't much point leaving Shrewsbury at all, because it would only lose more time en route and might as well pass the opposing service at Newtown. So, as I write the westbound service is now 45 minutes late, whereas it could have been just 15 minutes late. Okay, other trains use the Sutton Bridge area, but the excuses often wouldn't stand much scrutiny.
I hope people don't tell me all about the problems of single line working, I know all about this. I've previously seen late evening trains to Holyhead leave Shrewsbury on time just in case they should be one minute late on the single section past Wrexham, but the 20 passengers just arriving from Birmingham who were banging on the doors as it left, really weren't impressed. Keeping the single line free from late trains is no excuse when the opposing service has over 10 minutes spare, and shows real contempt for passengers who missed their supposed connection.
I have many, many more examples, I have only touched the tip of the iceberg, there are much worse than today's example. Like arriving into Eastleigh from London at 11.00pm after a 3 hour delay due to trespass on the line, to have 40 passengers literally banging on the door of the Portsmouth train, only for it to depart without them. At that time of night! And when we all remonstrated with the chap in charge of the station, he claimed to not even know that the line had been closed for the previous 3 hours!!!
I could go on ...

Here's another, on a completely different note. A great deal is made of the amazing scenery on the Glasgow to Mallaig route, but when my wife and I travelled it in 2019 the train windows were absolutely filthy. Not just dirt from a few days, but clearly from many weeks. Now I guarantee that I could have cleaned them up completely, along one side of the whole train, in just around 10 minutes with no more than a bucket and sponge, from the platform at Fort William, so why on earth leave them for weeks on end, whilst others are trying to promote the scenery? I just don't get it! I did write to Scotrail to suggest cleaning them but was met with a very dismissive and negative excuse.

 

[alf]

I will take notes on my next train trip & report, good or bad.
Providing the thread is still going.

I often see things that concur with what Shrop says.

 

[GC class B1]

I think this thread is too negative. I am a fairly regular leisure traveller and see some decisions that seem to be illogical and I am sure there is a better option. However most of the staff are helpful and do their best in the circumstances. Also there are sometimes good reasons why what the observers think should be done isn’t the right thing for reasons that aren’t apparent as we aren’t in possession of all the facts.

 

[Shrop]

I will take notes on my next train trip & report, good or bad.
Providing the thread is still going.

I often see things that concur with what Shrop says.

Thank you Alf.

I'd like to point out that I see plenty of good things about the railways too, and I advocate using them to many people. My problem is, that having got people to take rail trips, they then come back with stories of poor services and I end up embarrassed. I've said for many years, decades in fact, that our railways are an absolutely superb industry, but sadly let down by poor management. This is a shame for those managers who are good, but they undoubtedly have many among them who are a lot less good, and certainly have little interest in passengers, or even knowledge about them. It's a shame more people aren't prepared to challenge my assertions, but I think many know that they're on thin ice.

I think this thread is too negative. I am a fairly regular leisure traveller and see some decisions that seem to be illogical and I am sure there is a better option. However most of the staff are helpful and do their best in the circumstances. Also there are sometimes good reasons why what the observers think should be done isn’t the right thing for reasons that aren’t apparent as we aren’t in possession of all the facts.

I agree that there are many, many helpful staff, I've met a lot of them and I genuinely appreciate them. However, there is no excuse for what is sometimes absolutely appalling management, which is very sad for those who do perform an excellent job.
But i'm adamant that there are all too often very poor situations which, if all the facts were available, would be more damaging to management than revealing to the complainant.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Thank you Alf.

I'd like to point out that I see plenty of good things about the railways too, and I advocate using them to many people. My problem is, that having got people to take rail trips, they then come back with stories of poor services and I end up embarrassed. I've said for many years, decades in fact, that our railways are an absolutely superb industry, but sadly let down by poor management. This is a shame for those managers who are good, but they undoubtedly have many among them who are a lot less good, and certainly have little interest in passengers, or even knowledge about them. It's a shame more people aren't prepared to challenge my assertions, but I think many know that they're on thin ice.


I agree that there are many, many helpful staff, I've met a lot of them and I genuinely appreciate them. However, there is no excuse for what is sometimes absolutely appalling management, which is very sad for those who do perform an excellent job.
But i'm adamant that there are all too often very poor situations which, if all the facts were available, would be more damaging to management than revealing to the complainant.

You seem to be quite adamant about a lot of things.

Maybe that’s why people don’t want to enter a discussion with you.

 

[Grumpy Git]

In any industry, you will get staff of all grades who do the absolute minimum necessary to keep picking up their pay cheque.

I've just had some structural work done to my property and due to the nature of the job I had to use a company rather than a couple of local self employed lads. They had about a 10 mile journey from their yard to my house, but every morning spent at least another 15 minutes after arriving sat in their van drinking tea until 8:30. Knocked off at 10:30 for another 30 minutes break, then at 12:30 for a lunch hour. Off site by 15:30 every day. Talk about taking the pee.

 

[Shrop]

By the way, the train I was concerned about eventually arrived so late into Machynlleth that it was cancelled and didn't reach Aberystwyth. Which means the 19.29 from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury wasn't able to run. I wonder what happened to those passengers who wanted to travel on it?

You seem to be quite adamant about a lot of things.

Maybe that’s why people don’t want to enter a discussion with you.

I don't want to be unreasonably forthright, and I have little interest in being proved right. I just want management to be a little more on their toes and to run a railway which serves its passengers well.

 

[Bishopstone]

Following a couple of near misses, the foot crossing at Tide Mills on the Seaford branch has had a security detail posted to it between 8am and 4pm each day, contracted by Network Rail. Their job is to ensure the safe passage of 4tph by ensuring nobody strays onto the crossing in front of a train. Fair enough.

This security detail consists of two personnel, at all times. As they both stand together on one side of the crossing by the gate (not one guarding each side), I’ve scratched my head as to why the job needs two people.

Hardly a big thing, but the cost will be mounting-up and it seemed relevant to the thread.

 

[Starmill]

Is the location remote or urban? Working a public facing role alone in a very exposed area is fairly dubious.

 

[philthetube]

Following a couple of near misses, the foot crossing at Tide Mills on the Seaford branch has had a security detail posted to it between 8am and 4pm each day, contracted by Network Rail. Their job is to ensure the safe passage of 4tph by ensuring nobody strays onto the crossing in front of a train. Fair enough.

This security detail consists of two personnel, at all times. As they both stand together on one side of the crossing by the gate (not one guarding each side), I’ve scratched my head as to why the job needs two people.

Hardly a big thing, but the cost will be mounting-up and it seemed relevant to the thread.

Toilet?

 

[Bishopstone]

Toilet?

They have a welfare pod next to the crossing, with toilet, drying room and kitchen/seating area. And they have 15 minutes to use it between passing trains.

The area is semi-rural, and I would have thought no more dangerous for sole working than being in charge of Newhaven Town station, single-handed.

 

[birchesgreen]

I've just had some structural work done to my property and due to the nature of the job I had to use a company rather than a couple of local self employed lads. They had about a 10 mile journey from their yard to my house, but every morning spent at least another 15 minutes after arriving sat in their van drinking tea until 8:30. Knocked off at 10:30 for another 30 minutes break, then at 12:30 for a lunch hour. Off site by 15:30 every day. Talk about taking the pee.

Well after all that tea i'm not surprised.

 

[seagull]

I'd love to see certain things performed better in the UK with regard to the efficient running of railways, timetabling, customer service and the embracing of technology to a much wider extent too, but we do at times as a nation seem to love bashing and running down our rail industry when it is actually one that, in my experience, is the envy of many countries. Imho of course.

 

[6Gman]

Today's trip was from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth and back, and all day long it seems that trains have been losing time throughout the route. Surely after many, many years of problems with slippery rails, that can't still be the excuse?

Given the recent incident near Salisbury I'd quite like the driver in charge of any train I was using to be cautious when there are "slippery rails".

When our train arrived back into Shrewsbury at 17.46, some 27 minutes late, you might think the reverse service to Aberystwyth would be champing at the bit to leave, yet it didn't leave until 17.55. Sense would suggest that it could have got as far as Sutton Bridge junction and been ready to lose no more time in which case it could have passed the opposing train at Talerddig. However, there seemed to be an air of despondency about the whole operation, ie there wasn't much point leaving Shrewsbury at all, because it would only lose more time en route and might as well pass the opposing service at Newtown.

If, as you suggest, there was consistent late running today it may be that a member of the traincrew had been late arriving at Shrewsbury and that had impacted on the departure time.

 

[O L Leigh]

I don't doubt that there are things that the railways could do better, but what worries me is that you immediately seem to classify any communication you get from the railways, whether officially or unofficially, as an "excuse". That it might seem that way to you is entirely fine, but it does make those of us who work there and might possibly be able to demystify the situation for you hesitant to reply (it certainly does to me).

Yes some of these reasons may seem like excuses. Maybe sometimes they are. The problem is that it's sometimes hard to engage with a person who seems to have already made up their mind about something. Experience has shown that very often the travelling public does not want to understand and that giving a full explanation about why something is the way it is doesn't help them. So we tend to give concise, if generalised, answers.

I do agree that privatised railway does cause a greater focus on performance than service, but given that this is the framework within which we are required to operate then we cannot reasonably change things without incurring penalties.

 

[yorkie]

Unfortunately this thread has got off to a bad start due to the tone and language used.

Also it does not help where a huge range of unrelated issues are all lumped together in one wide-ranging thread.

Therefore, can I ask that any specific concerns are each posted as a separate thread, in the appropriate forum section, please.