Railway Staff - Historic arrangements for cash wages

[telstarbox]

I once worked at a supermarket with a petrol station at the far end the car park. For some reason I and another cashier were trusted to move cash between the petrol station tills and the main cash office which was upstairs in the warehouse behind an airlock double door.

The tried and tested method to effect this transfer was to put the long canvas money bags in the bottom of a standard customer trolley, and then cover them over with multipack crisps

 

[Falcon1200]

I recall one particular pay day in about 1979/80 when the wage on my payslip came to £99.97 and I opened my envelope to find a shiny red Scottish £100 note inside!

Wow! In October 1978 my first week's wage from BR, paid in cash because bank payment had not yet been set up, was £37.50. I had never had that much money in my hand before and felt like a king!

 

[Gloster]

Wow! In October 1978 my first week's wage from BR, paid in cash because bank payment had not yet been set up, was £37.50. I had never had that much money in my hand before and felt like a king!

Lucky you! Mine from the end of July was £28-something before deductions. Still, there was an immense feeling of ‘being a man’ by collecting my own hard-earned money.

 

[Springs Branch]

Lucky you! Mine from the end of July was £28-something before deductions. Still, there was an immense feeling of ‘being a man’ by collecting my own hard-earned money.

Same era for me (but not with BR). And a similar amount too - around £30, give or take, and definitely head held high whilst walking home from work that first Friday, brown envelope with folded £5 and £1 notes in pocket.

 

[D6130]

Lucky you! Mine from the end of July was £28-something before deductions. Still, there was an immense feeling of ‘being a man’ by collecting my own hard-earned money.

In fairness, I think I had done a bit of overtime that week on some urgent short-notice project.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Only tangential to the subject, I know; but, when I was a young & naive booking clerk at Northampton (which had a separate wages office, so I only got involved with wage packets for staff that couldn't collect during the office hours that the wages clerks worked) I was puzzled because drivers would regularly turn up at the window asking for a cheque from the Railway Savings Bank ro be cashed. Puzzled, because, on enquiry, the Savings Bank did not pay interest (or, possibly, did but a tiny amount). I eventually asked my senior colleagues what was going on - why deposit money into the Savings Bank and then withdraw it the next week, repeating the process?

Clearly leading a sheltered life, I then received a lesson on the ways of the wicked world...

The deposit into the Savings Bank was a deduction indicated only by a code number. There was a number of deductions, tax, N.I., and for things like Union subs, British Rail Staff Association membership and so on, so the transfer to the Savings bank was one of many, and all those stoppages appeared as a sub-total between gross and net pay. Because of the size of the tax and N.I. totals a modest amount extracted into the Savings Bank would not stand out. But it did mean that the wage packet showed to the partner did not actually include all the money that had actually been paid after all the other, unavoidable, stoppages; the Savings Bank dosh could be spent 'privately'...

 

[Dai Corner]

Only tangential to the subject, I know; but, when I was a young & naive booking clerk at Northampton (which had a separate wages office, so I only got involved with wage packets for staff that couldn't collect during the office hours that the wages clerks worked) I was puzzled because drivers would regularly turn up at the window asking for a cheque from the Railway Savings Bank ro be cashed. Puzzled, because, on enquiry, the Savings Bank did not pay interest (or, possibly, did but a tiny amount). I eventually asked my senior colleagues what was going on - why deposit money into the Savings Bank and then withdraw it the next week, repeating the process?

Clearly leading a sheltered life, I then received a lesson on the ways of the wicked world...

The deposit into the Savings Bank was a deduction indicated only by a code number. There was a number of deductions, tax, N.I., and for things like Union subs, British Rail Staff Association membership and so on, so the transfer to the Savings bank was one of many, and all those stoppages appeared as a sub-total between gross and net pay. Because of the size of the tax and N.I. totals a modest amount extracted into the Savings Bank would not stand out. But it did mean that the wage packet showed to the partner did not actually include all the money that had actually been paid after all the other, unavoidable, stoppages; the Savings Bank dosh could be spent 'privately'...

Presumably the Railway Savings Bank would send statements to depots rather than home addresses?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Presumably the Railway Savings Bank would send statements to depots rather than home addresses?

That's an interesting point. I guess that the staff concerned would have to make sure that happened.

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

I remember getting all the payslips with several blank ones at the beginning and end. We had a typewriter with a wide opening for different widths of paper and these blank payslips fitted really well. The type face was also almost the same as the printed payslip. You can imagine the surprise of the junior railman whose net pay was 0.00 as all of his deductions miraculously equalled his gross pay!

 

[Clarence Yard]

That's an interesting point. I guess that the staff concerned would have to make sure that happened.

Yes, they came to the workplace. At the depots I worked at the savings bank was their extra beer or betting money. If the missus rang up the depot and asked what the code was, the pay clerk always said it some kind of other deduction, never giving away what it truly was.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Yes, they came to the workplace. At the depots I worked at the savings bank was their extra beer or betting money. If the missus rang up the depot and asked what the code was, the pay clerk always said it some kind of other deduction, never giving away what it truly was.

Thanks. The practice seems to have been widespread then.

The deposits must have had a small helpful effect on B.R. cashflow. I remember, in the depths of austerity on B.R., there was one period-end approaching when there was real doubt that there would be enough cash to pay the wages.

 

[MadMac]

I was still paid in cash as a grade 3 clerical officer in the Scottish Region train planning office well into the early 1980s. As stated upthread, the wages were rounded up - or occasionally down, if it was a matter of a few pence - to the nearest Pound and adjustments were made the following week. I recall one particular pay day in about 1979/80 when the wage on my payslip came to £99.97 and I opened my envelope to find a shiny red Scottish £100 note inside! After making a - probably illegal - colour photocopy of each side for posterity, I reluctantly had to take it to the bank in my lunch hour to get it changed. I don't think I've ever seen one since then!

Couple of the lads I worked with in Buck House were paid in cash until the bitter end (1990-ish). One bemoaned the end of cash pay as having an adverse effect on his sex life as he no longer had a trail of fivers to leave on the stairs!

Another had worked 12 hour shifts, plus there was back money from a pay deal. The clerk came to his desk with a pay packet containing £660 in fivers! He still maintains to this day that the packet sprung open when he took the staple out.

 

[Llanigraham]

In the summer of 1972, before I went to Uni, I worked for Wimpey on the M5 contract in South Gloucestershire as a chain boy. We were paid in cash on a Thursday afternoon from a modified Land Rover that drove from the engineering offices where the Falfield Junction now is all the way up to where the Stroudwater junction is.
Where the wage packets were made up I don't know, but I do remember some employees couldn't read and had to have things explained to them.

 

[Ken H]

In the summer of 1972, before I went to Uni, I worked for Wimpey on the M5 contract in South Gloucestershire as a chain boy. We were paid in cash on a Thursday afternoon from a modified Land Rover that drove from the engineering offices where the Falfield Junction now is all the way up to where the Stroudwater junction is.
Where the wage packets were made up I don't know, but I do remember some employees couldn't read and had to have things explained to them.

I did chain boy on the building site for the new Lloyds Bank corner of Park Row/ Bond St, Leeds in 73/74. I was paid cash. Did you get holiday stamps each week?
Went agency after that and they paid by cheque. That was a pain.

Another facet of wages in those days were the NI stamp cards. You got a years stamps* on a card. Once a year you full card was sent into the social security office and they would send out an old one. The letter at the end of your NI number (ABCD) denoted when your card was exchanged as they did a campaign each quarter for 25% of cards. my mum had a temp job for a few weeks each quarter copying the stuff from the old cards onto the new.

*employers bought special stamps at a post office.

 

[Merle Haggard]

When I first worked on the railway employees were encouraged* to change from cash to bank transfer but my understanding was that the wages grades couldn't be forced to. At the time I was told that manual workers (people who earned money by sweat of the brow apparently being the definition) had to be paid in cash under the Truck Act.

That Act was intended to prevent employees being rewarded by the employer, at least in part, by some form of voucher which could only be exchanged for goods or services at company-run outlets. These outlets gave a poor rate of exchange for the vouchers in effect reducing the wage of the employee. As it happened this practice had been very common amongst the contractors that built railways.

Although payment into a bank account did not commit the employee to using particular places to spend their money it was somehow regarded as analogous.

The Truck Act seems to have been replaced by legislation with similar purpose, but I was surprised, looking on the web, at how (comparatively) recently it was still in force.

I am uncertain how valid these arguments were and would be interested to hear a definitive view.

Personally, I preferred to be paid in cash. It seemed so much easier to be a spendthrift when merely writing a cheque compared to handing over dosh.

*usually by citing the danger to ones fellow employees handling the cash.,

 

[Llanigraham]

I did chain boy on the building site for the new Lloyds Bank corner of Park Row/ Bond St, Leeds in 73/74. I was paid cash. Did you get holiday stamps each week?
Went agency after that and they paid by cheque. That was a pain.

Not that I remember, and it was only a temp job between school and uni.

 

[Gloster]

I think that it was around 1986 that it became compulsory for new entrants to BR to be paid through a bank account. Existing staff were not required to change from payment in cash, but considerable efforts were being made to get them to do so.

 

[Taunton]

When I first worked on the railway employees were encouraged* to change from cash to bank transfer but my understanding was that the wages grades couldn't be forced to. At the time I was told that manual workers (people who earned money by sweat of the brow apparently being the definition) had to be paid in cash under the Truck Act.

That Act was intended to prevent employees being rewarded by the employer, at least in part, by some form of voucher which could only be exchanged for goods or services at company-run outlets. These outlets gave a poor rate of exchange for the vouchers in effect reducing the wage of the employee. As it happened this practice had been very common amongst the contractors that built railways.

Although payment into a bank account did not commit the employee to using particular places to spend their money it was somehow regarded as analogous.

The Truck Act seems to have been replaced by legislation with similar purpose, but I was surprised, looking on the web, at how (comparatively) recently it was still in force.

I am uncertain how valid these arguments were and would be interested to hear a definitive view.

Personally, I preferred to be paid in cash. It seemed so much easier to be a spendthrift when merely writing a cheque compared to handing over dosh.

*usually by citing the danger to ones fellow employees handling the cash.,

You are correct. The Truck Act was repealed by the Wages Act 1986, which somewhat coincided with the increase in payment direct into the bank. Before then weekly-paid employees had a statutory right to be paid in cash on pay day. It was originally introduced in pre-Victorian times to overcome employers paying in "tokens" which could only be spent in shops which they also controlled. I believe many large organisations had one or two outliers who to the end insisted on being paid in cash, which when they had generally moved on to direct bank payment was a considerable nuisance. However, outside this law there were also some union agreements on cash pay as well to be ended.

However it is difficult to understand now how much more difficult it was then to access funds in the bank. Shops (and railway booking offices) did not take cards, you had to have got the cash first. ATMs had come into wider (though not universal) use, but were only at the bank in the town centre, initially they were not valid between different banks, and only those with good bank records even got an ATM card in the first place. The banks themselves kept limited opening hours, when of course people were at work elsewhere, which was an issue for opening bank accounts in the first place, and were seen as a bit intimidating for some wages-grade staff - they thought you needed to put your suit on to go in.

But I found the main issue was it was not trusted as a pay medium, there were 101 reasons/excuses. "Wife would spend it all" was not as trivial a comment as might be thought. Then there was the fear that those with court orders ("arrestments" in Scotland, and "garnishments" for our USA readers) which they were evading would get picked up - and, as the pay clerk and myself once discussed, "if they've got one order then they seem to have half a dozen".

That old USA tradition of doing a runner from the railroad pay car, described above, had a long continuation ...

 

[Gloster]

And it should be remembered that many railway staff, particularly signalmen and PW staff, worked in rural locations and might not go into a town for weeks. Even though there were far more branches of banks in small towns, it could still mean a special journey, possibly by someone who didn’t drive, to visit the bank. PW staff and others were working through the whole period that small town banks were open (09.30-15.30, if you were lucky). Additionally, an awful lot of things, right up to rent, might be paid in cash.

 

[MadMac]

I think that it was around 1986 that it became compulsory for new entrants to BR to be paid through a bank account. Existing staff were not required to change from payment in cash, but considerable efforts were being made to get them to do so.

I started in February 1979 and it was bank payment only for new starts, although I was paid cash the first few weeks until I got “into the system”.

 

[Ken H]

i was involved in a project to move from cash to bank transfer (not cheques) for weekly paid staff.*
They were not happy
Eventualy the employer had to agree to cash cheques from the employees from the cash desk (They were a clothing wholesaler)
The bank came to the workplace to open bank accounts for the majority who did not have them already.
How employees elsewhere that could not cash cheques got on I dont know.


*Not electronic. we sent a list of payees incl sort code and account number, with amount to the bank. The bank had a staff member key into the banks computer.

About 1987 I think

 

[Lemmy99uk]

BR used to offer a £5 allowance once a year to those whose pay went directly into a bank account, ostensibly to offset any charges the employee might have to pay.

It appeared annually on the payslip under the code BNK.

 

[MadMac]

BR used to offer a £5 allowance once a year to those whose pay went directly into a bank account, ostensibly to offset any charges the employee might have to pay.

It appeared annually on the payslip under the code BNK.

I’d forgotten about that! On a semi-related note, anyone recall the incident in the 80s when one of the payroll computer tapes got lost en route and about a quarter of BR staff didn’t get paid?

 

[Trestrol]

I also had forgotten about that as well.

 

[telstarbox]

And it should be remembered that many railway staff, particularly signalmen and PW staff, worked in rural locations and might not go into a town for weeks. Even though there were far more branches of banks in small towns, it could still mean a special journey, possibly by someone who didn’t drive, to visit the bank. PW staff and others were working through the whole period that small town banks were open (09.30-15.30, if you were lucky). Additionally, an awful lot of things, right up to rent, might be paid in cash.

Rent I can understand and I know one person who still does this weekly.
Did anyone ever pay their mortgage in cash?

 

[robert thomas]

Rent I can understand and I know one person who still does this weekly.
Did anyone ever pay their mortgage in cash?

My solicitor's office had a builing society agency in the 60s-80's and we collected many mortgage payments in cash each month

 

[Falcon1200]

I started in February 1979 and it was bank payment only for new starts, although I was paid cash the first few weeks until I got “into the system”.

Same for me starting in October 1978.

However it is difficult to understand now how much more difficult it was then to access funds in the bank.

That's a good point; I can't remember now exactly why it was necessary, but my Dad (who worked for a bank) set up an arrangement allowing me to withdraw £30 per week in cash from my local branch (only).

 

[Clarence Yard]

There was an agreement made with the Unions in the 1970’s that all new salaried staff would be paid four weekly into their bank (I was one of them) but nearly all wages staff were still weekly until the big push to be paid via your bank started in the mid 1980’s, although an increasing number of wages staff were already moving to having it sent to their bank.

ATM’s made a big difference in accessing your cash from your bank and that provided an impetus for some to switch over, even before 1986.

I once had a CAT 2 mate, who got O/T and bonus, come up to me in the workshop one Thursday (when I was a CO2 Tech Clerk on straight days), wave his pay slip in my face and say, “Man, how can you live on this?”. So I got my pay slip out, “Now then brother, try living on this!” He was shocked - he always thought we got paid more than the unskilled workshop staff!

 

[Taunton]

Eventually the employer had to agree to cash cheques from the employees from the cash desk (They were a clothing wholesaler)

This was also common in various business offices, to be able to cash a cheque in the petty cash, although even with restricted amounts it had a habit of clearing out the cash box completely on Friday afternoons.

Now the petty cash box was another of my ultimate responsibilities at that site office described above. After the wages had been paid out on Thursdays a (hopefully small) queue filed in, sometimes with their union rep if they weren't sure of their persuasive abilities, to discuss "discrepancies" with me and the clerk, generally some small item in the complex wages build up, and they would demand a "Sub" for any shortfall, which if reasonable (my judgement) came out of the petty cash box. It was fiddly to get our pay clerk to then arrange for this with the HQ wages team to be recorded on the next week's pay but then deducted as already paid out, and the hope was that it would be forgotten or they would be paid it twice, which certainly happened a few times until I got the hang of it (this is first job after university).

One early occasion a welder came in who was missing a bonus they got for working on stainless steel, which was about 20p an hour. "Two hours of stainless bonus last Tuesday afternoon not paid". Check the bonus sheets, sure enough. "I want a sub".

Now the old hand General Foreman was passing outside, saw the two of us through the window, and came in. "Why's he in here?". I explained, said it would be corrected the next week, adding at the end that he wanted a sub. "A sub? How much is it?". "40p" I reply.

"40p? You want a sub for 40p? You useless *&^%$£*&^%$ of a *&^%$*&^%, get back on the job". To which the reply was "Oh, alright then". And off he went.

"There you go, son, that's the way to deal with them" was then the advice to me.

 

[telstarbox]

When I ran a project site office long ago, cash pay was made up at HQ and the packets delivered by Securicor. Even in the 1970s the guys were netting over £200 a week, occasionally there was a tax refund in four figures, and when we paid off periodically there were a large number of very substantial packets. There was a considerable reluctance to being paid straight into the bank, which I pioneered, and as many were working well away from home various arrangements to get money back there, sometimes a disappointingly small proportion of the total. We didn't like the security of this at all, as soon as it was delivered, which correctly arrived at random times in the day, I got work stopped and paid it out. Eventually I got Securicor to provide an armoured Transit van with a pay window, where the guys were paid directly from the van so it never came into the office.

Pay was rounded off to the next £1 above, a note then, on a cumulative basis to avoid having coins. Despite me explaining this on multiple occasions to some of the labourers, who were separately mathematical masters in shouting out when someone needed say 54 to finish a darts match in the pub "treble 12 double 9", there were some who continued to have blank looks by the end.

I have a vision of a load of people at the top of scaffolding all watching the van bouncing along a dirt track!