Railways and Dr Who

[DynamicSpirit]

With the 60th anniversary of Dr Who, and the new episode shown last Saturday, the BBC have put all the old classic Dr Who episodes on iPlayer for anyone to watch. That's an awful lot of watching for any Dr Who fans with enough time on their hands! So yesterday I randomly picked Web of Fear - a story I'd always wanted to see - to watch. The story was first shown in 1968, and appears to be set almost entirely in London Underground tunnels (but with no trains running due to the alien invasion), and I've unexpectedly found it fascinating in railway terms. There's very often a contemporary London Underground map in the background of the sets - which shows a network that looks extraordinarily sparse by today's standards, with no Victoria, Jubilee or Elizabeth lines. At one point it's possible to see Aldersgate station on the map (Barbican, before it was renamed). There are also repeated (and as far as I can tell so far, correct) references to geography: For example at one point Lethbridge Stewart refers to getting from Tottenham Court Road to Holborn, avoiding the Central Line tunnels, by going down to Leicester Square. The scenes on a tube platform look quite realistic - to the point where I can't tell whether it is just a mock-up in the studio or whether they actually did manage to film on a real tube platform. If it is a studio mock-up then it's extraordinarily elaborate, although I do notice they keep reusing what is obviously the same set/location with different station signs up to make out that they are in different stations. And amusingly, they use the same set for supposed Circle line platforms at Monument - so in the Dr Who Universe, the Circle line is apparently a deep level tube line

I'm curious how they filmed this story, and also if there are any other good railway scenes in Dr Who? (Off the top of my head, at one point in the Jon Pertwee story, the Silurians, a Government official is seen arriving at a London terminus - supposedly from Derbyshire, although the train they chose to film him stepping off of looks more like a local commuter train, and the station does not look to me like St Pancras).

 

[randyrippley]

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Web_of_Fear

The Tube sets were reportedly so accurate that the BBC was accused of illegally filming on London Underground property.[4] According to the director permission was sought from London Transport to film in the Underground but the fees they would have charged to do so were unmanageably expensive.

and from https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Web_of_Fear_(TV_story)

• The original plan was to film in the London Undergrond, specifically in Aldwych and Covent Garden stations, but London Transport demanded and exorbitant fee and indicated that filming would be restricted to just a handful of overnight hours. It was decided to recreate London Underground on studio sets. The recreations were so realistic, the BBC apparently received a letter of complaint from London Transport, claiming filming had been done on their property without permission.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

One of the opening scenes in the first 13th Doctor (Jodie Whittaker) story "The Woman Who Fell to Earth" takes place on a commuter train, with the Doctor falling through the roof of the train and battling some glowing orbs or something - I dunno, it was a Chibnall story...

Wikipedia says that:

Filming of the train cab scenes was on one of the four Class 489 preserved (Unit 9110) at the Barry Tourist Railway in Barry.

The Woman Who Fell to Earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There's also the 12th Doctor Story "Mummy on the Orient Express", which takes place, well, on the Orient Express... albeit in the future when the Orient Express is, er, travelling through space... not sure that's exactly what you were looking for.

@DynamicSpirit If you enjoyed The Web of Fear, you might also want to put the Blu Ray on your Christmas list as it contains an animated missing episode (not sure the iPlayer version has that?) and also a making-of feature called "Going Underground" which apparently discusses the underground station sets etc. I can't vouch for the quality of either the animated reconstruction nor the documentary, but the features on the Doctor Who DVD/Blu-Ray releases are *generally* excellent.

 

[Ted633]

There was an episode in (I think) the Matt Smith era that involved a heritage DMU being 'attacked' and ended up being 2d against a wall (if that makes sense!)
Think the episode was 'Flatline'

If you enjoyed The Web of Fear, you might also want to put the Blu Ray on your Christmas list as it contains an animated missing episode (not sure the iPlayer version has that?) and also a making-of feature called "Going Underground" which apparently discusses the underground station sets etc. I can't vouch for the quality of either the animated reconstruction nor the documentary, but the features on the Doctor Who DVD/Blu-Ray releases are *generally* excellent.

Surprisingly, the animated ones are also on iPlayer. I just wonder how long they'll all stay there.
My copy of The Web of Fear doesn't have the missing episode animated, it instead is made up of surviving stills.

 

[APT618S]

I'm curious how they filmed this story, and also if there are any other good railway scenes in Dr Who? (Off the top of my head, at one point in the Jon Pertwee story, the Silurians, a Government official is seen arriving at a London terminus - supposedly from Derbyshire, although the train they chose to film him stepping off of looks more like a local commuter train, and the station does not look to me like St Pancras).

The Silurians scene was filmed at Marylebone.

Marylebone station

Marylebone station was a London railway station and a part of the London Underground. After unknowingly being infected with the Silurian virus, Masters began the spread of the disease to others at the station after he travelled there. (TV: Doctor Who and the Silurians) The crew also made cameos...

tardis.fandom.com

 

[DynamicSpirit]

and from https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Web_of_Fear_(TV_story)

The original plan was to film in the London Undergrond, specifically in Aldwych and Covent Garden stations, but London Transport demanded and exorbitant fee and indicated that filming would be restricted to just a handful of overnight hours. It was decided to recreate London Underground on studio sets. The recreations were so realistic, the BBC apparently received a letter of complaint from London Transport, claiming filming had been done on their property without permission.

So definitely a very good looking set. But actually I found an obvious giveaway that it's just a film set: Look at those points - I don't think there's any chance that they would work on a real railway! (Plus a teensy issue that the tracks for the wheels have a very strange design and are electrically connected to the central conductor rail )



(Image of timestamp 15:17 from https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0074qdb/doctor-who-19631996-season-5-the-web-of-fear-episode-1 - episode 1 of the Web of Fear, showing some very strange looking supposed tube railway points)

 

[sprunt]

Who's responsible for the Delay Repay in the event of a Yeti on the line?

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I'd say UNIT should pick up the tab for that one!

 

[Trackman]

and from https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Web_of_Fear_(TV_story) The original plan was to film in the London Undergrond, specifically in Aldwych and Covent Garden stations, but London Transport demanded and exorbitant fee and indicated that filming would be restricted to just a handful of overnight hours. It was decided to recreate London Underground on studio sets. The recreations were so realistic, the BBC apparently received a letter of complaint from London Transport, claiming filming had been done on their property without permission.

It must have cost a fortune to build that set, unless they had one in stores. If they did build it from scratch it makes you think how much London Transport wanted to film.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It must have cost a fortune to build that set, unless they had one in stores. If they did build it from scratch it makes you think how much London Transport wanted to film.

I'd not be surprised if the quote was a serious five figure sum - and it probably wouldn't cost as much as we might think to build a very realistic set.

 

[The exile]

“Day of the Daleks” features the GWML crossing the canal - with the occasional sound of passing trains which I guess are genuine rather than sound effect.

I'd not be surprised if the quote was a serious five figure sum - and it probably wouldn't cost as much as we might think to build a very realistic set.

The actual costs of location filming would be higher as well.

I'd not be surprised if the quote was a serious five figure sum - and it probably wouldn't cost as much as we might think to build a very realistic set.

Sometimes of course it’s easier to say “yes” and name an unaffordable sum than to say “no”.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The actual costs of location filming would be higher as well.

...with the added advantage that the set would be available in normal daytime hours for as long as required and not for a limited number of hours at silly o'clock.

 

[simonw]

Who's responsible for the Delay Repay in the event of a Yeti on the line?

No his name is the Dr, not Who.

 

[Strathclyder]

There was an episode in (I think) the Matt Smith era that involved a heritage DMU being 'attacked' and ended up being 2d against a wall (if that makes sense!)
Think the episode was 'Flatline'

That episode was from Capaldi's first series - Series 8. The episode was set mainly in Bristol, but the scenes centered around the railway were filmed on the Barry Tourist Railway and Wenvoe Tunnel.

 

[londonbridge]

IPlayer says “available for over a year” on all classic episodes. Interestingly though, the very first story, An Unearthly Child, isn’t available as a rights dispute is preventing the BBC from adding it.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Replace "a right dispute" with "an utter ****" in that last sentence. The motivation seems only to spoil the BBCs party, in spite of all the fans. The man's a cretin.

 

[GatwickDepress]

There's an episode set on an alternate Earth where a computer-generated steam train puffs along an elevated railway that runs through the Gherkin in London. The locomotive looks like a very uncanny European design.

 

[DarloRich]

The locomotive looks like a very uncanny European design.

it is an alternative earth. The traction design tastes have been reversed. Alternative France had Gresley A4's

 

[Trackman]

And there's Tom Baker with his ankle stuck in some points.
Think it was on a now defunct narrow gauge railway in Surrey, the diesel / battery shunter had a very loud kettle whistle!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Think it was on a now defunct narrow gauge railway in Surrey, the diesel / battery shunter had a very loud kettle whistle!

Betchworth Quarry, possibly?

 

[sprunt]

That little train that the Kaleds move The Doctor and Harry on in Genesis of the Daleks. Seems to be pointlessly short.

 

[Trackman]

Betchworth Quarry, possibly?

It is, just google it. All gone now.

 

[32475]

With the 60th anniversary of Dr Who, and the new episode shown last Saturday, the BBC have put all the old classic Dr Who episodes on iPlayer for anyone to watch. That's an awful lot of watching for any Dr Who fans with enough time on their hands! So yesterday I randomly picked Web of Fear - a story I'd always wanted to see - to watch. The story was first shown in 1968, and appears to be set almost entirely in London Underground tunnels (but with no trains running due to the alien invasion), and I've unexpectedly found it fascinating in railway terms. There's very often a contemporary London Underground map in the background of the sets - which shows a network that looks extraordinarily sparse by today's standards, with no Victoria, Jubilee or Elizabeth lines. At one point it's possible to see Aldersgate station on the map (Barbican, before it was renamed). There are also repeated (and as far as I can tell so far, correct) references to geography: For example at one point Lethbridge Stewart refers to getting from Tottenham Court Road to Holborn, avoiding the Central Line tunnels, by going down to Leicester Square. The scenes on a tube platform look quite realistic - to the point where I can't tell whether it is just a mock-up in the studio or whether they actually did manage to film on a real tube platform. If it is a studio mock-up then it's extraordinarily elaborate, although I do notice they keep reusing what is obviously the same set/location with different station signs up to make out that they are in different stations. And amusingly, they use the same set for supposed Circle line platforms at Monument - so in the Dr Who Universe, the Circle line is apparently a deep level tube line

I'm curious how they filmed this story, and also if there are any other good railway scenes in Dr Who? (Off the top of my head, at one point in the Jon Pertwee story, the Silurians, a Government official is seen arriving at a London terminus - supposedly from Derbyshire, although the train they chose to film him stepping off of looks more like a local commuter train, and the station does not look to me like St Pancras).

Thanks for alerting me to the Web of Fear episodes which I hadn’t seen since I was eight years old. It really captured my imagination at the time and I remember being rather scared to go on the Underground with my Mum for fear that some yetis might come out of a tunnel! The sets are good but there’s one episode with a very wobbly wall and the bit of tunnel with a very tight set of points keeps getting repeated again and again but that all adds to the charm.
Interestingly there appears to be an SNP poster on the station wall somewhere around halfway through the last episode unless I’m mistaken.

 

[barringtoncem]

The Scene in Black Orchid where the Tardis materalises on the Station Platform was filmed at the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre & i think
that the Bewdley Rail Centre was also used for some stock footage

 

[satisnek]

With the 60th anniversary of Dr Who, and the new episode shown last Saturday, the BBC have put all the old classic Dr Who episodes on iPlayer for anyone to watch.

This I've got to see! I always thought that many of the early episodes no longer existed...

As for the Web Of Fear, the London Transport bods must have been watching it with no sound as the actors are quite audibly clomping around on a wooden set...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

As for the Web Of Fear, the London Transport bods must have been watching it with no sound as the actors are quite audibly clomping around on a wooden set...

That's something which seems quite prevalent on lots of the older stuff - presumably something to do with the microphone technology of the day?

Even 15 years later in the 1980s, the wooden floor stomping effect was very noticeable - just watch series one of Auf Wiedershen Pet when they're clomping around in the dormitory hut; the same effect is noticeable.

I do wonder if digitally re-mastering the soundtrack could deal with the issue?

 

[CharlieSpotted]

This I've got to see! I always thought that many of the early episodes no longer existed...

That's sadly true, it perhaps should have read "All of the old classic Doctor Who... Except the first serial "An Unearthly Child" which is unavailable due to rights issues, and the 97 missing episodes from the William Hartnell and Patrick Troughton eras which were deleted and have not yet been recovered, albeit some of those episodes have been recreated in animated form where the soundtrack exists..."

But that's a lot less pithy

 

[sefyllian]

The 4th Doctor and Romana take the Paris Metro in City of Death from 1979 (one of the very few classic stories filmed abroad?)

 

[DynamicSpirit]

This I've got to see! I always thought that many of the early episodes no longer existed...

Yes I could perhaps have been more careful how I phrased the starting post. According to Wikipedia, 97 of the 253 episodes from the Hartnell and Troughton years are still missing, although the audio from all episodes still exists, and many of those episodes have been recreated as animations with the original audio. In fact, episode 3 of Web of Fear is one of them, so what I watched on iPlayer was the entire Web of Fear story, but with episode 3 animated. Not nearly as much fun to watch the animated bit, but not too bad if it's only a single episode.

So I guess in actuality, what's on iPlayer is: All stories from Jon Pertwee onwards (except if I recall correctly, I think one episode of Invasion of the Dinosaurs is only available in black and white), and most of the Hartnell/Troughton episodes, with some animated only.

 

[4SubAsociation]

One of the opening scenes in the first 13th Doctor (Jodie Whittaker) story "The Woman Who Fell to Earth" takes place on a commuter train, with the Doctor falling through the roof of the train and battling some glowing orbs or something - I dunno, it was a Chibnall story...

Wikipedia says that:

The Woman Who Fell to Earth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There's also the 12th Doctor Story "Mummy on the Orient Express", which takes place, well, on the Orient Express... albeit in the future when the Orient Express is, er, travelling through space... not sure that's exactly what you were looking for.

@DynamicSpirit If you enjoyed The Web of Fear, you might also want to put the Blu Ray on your Christmas list as it contains an animated missing episode (not sure the iPlayer version has that?) and also a making-of feature called "Going Underground" which apparently discusses the underground station sets etc. I can't vouch for the quality of either the animated reconstruction nor the documentary, but the features on the Doctor Who DVD/Blu-Ray releases are *generally* excellent.

Set 9110 is now at the EKR with three of the carraiges. Not watched dr who since pre whittaker era, it was not Jodie that put me off. I stopped watching tv around Nov 2019 and i could not stand Bradley Walsh.

Handy on youtube there is short of this scene -