Random termination points

[Whistler40145]

I remember a St Annes-on-Sea to Greenbank service which ran via Manchester Piccadilly with top n tail 31s, I think it then worked ECS to Chester, but not sure what the remainder of the diagram was

 

[xotGD]

I always thought that Paddington to Twyford was a strange one. Stopped Reading passengers clogging up the train.

 

[Magdalia]

I always thought that Paddington to Twyford was a strange one. Stopped Reading passengers clogging up the train.

The Twyford trains were the truncated remains of through trains to and from Henley, which ended in 1976.

Between 1968 and 1976 Paddington/Henley trains were worked by Swindon Inter City dmus, after the 1968 Paddington resignalling had removed the run round facilities at Henley. But the DMUs were too slow to run on the fast lines in the HST timetable and replaced by loco hauled trains from/to Twyford.

 

[Bertie the bus]

That Leeds – Hebden Bridge service that was supposed to be operated by a Grand Central 180 appeared fairly random. It seemed to get cancelled a good proportion of the time but when it did run I expect Hebden Bridge was chosen as its destination because it is an easy station for the unit to reverse and return to where it was needed.

 

[krus_aragon]

To a modern eye, terminating a service at Conwy station looks odd. But in the early 90s, there was a shuttle service from Llandudno to Conwy and back mid-morning. In lieu of a turnback, trains would run wrong-line from Junction along the up line to platform 1 and signal LJ68, then return right-line.

Conwy opened in 1987, two years after Llandudno Junction was resignalled. LJ68 didn't appear in the original signal diagram, so appears to have been added afterward with the reopening of the station. The fact that it required blocking the up line back to Penmaenbach tunnel probably has a lot to do with why this service is no longer operated.

 

[gg1]

Not a termination but a random start point, hopefully this is allowed.

Pre covid there was a daily morning Avanti service from Bham Intl to Euston with no equivalent return service. The reason for it's existence was the 07:30 from New Street used to run non stop to Euston so an additional train was required to fill in the gap at Intl, Coventry and Rugby.

In practice it wasn't uncommon for this service to be withdrawn and the scheduled stops added to the (no longer non stop) New Street departure.

 

[py_megapixel]

Alderley Edge has always seemed a bit of a strange one to me.

 

[156478]

Legacy of when the former Bridgeton Central station was used as a stabling point.

Anderston (Argyle Line) & High Street (North Clyde Line) spring to mind as two other examples of this, past and/or present, for the west-east Glasgow suburban lines. A quick scan of Realtime Trains during the current timetable reveals no services presently finishing/starting at High Street outwith times of disruption, but one (1C06 to Carstairs) starts at Anderston during the evening peak.

Looking back, there was a early-morning peak train that IIRC started at Helensburgh Central that went via either Singer or Yoker (can't remember which off the top of my head) that terminated at High Street in the early/mid-2010s. Remember using it at least once while I attended college in Glasgow, was a unrefurbished 318 if my memory ain't failing me.

Terminating services at Bellgrove and High Street these days are performance risks, especially as if you terminated at Bellgrove or High Street in service and then departed as empties the driver would need to put in a new headcode for the empties into the GSMR. Then the traincrew have to make sure everyone is off the train. Before the pandemic with the trains every 10 minutes to Airdrie and 4 extending onwards to Edinburgh the subthreshold delays with any of these activities would have spread like wildfire.

The preference these days is to call at High Street and or Bellgrove and then non stop up to Springburn in service.

 

[Strathclyder]

Terminating services at Bellgrove and High Street these days are performance risks, especially as if you terminated at Bellgrove or High Street in service and then departed as empties the driver would need to put in a new headcode for the empties into the GSMR. Then the traincrew have to make sure everyone is off the train. Before the pandemic with the trains every 10 minutes to Airdrie and 4 extending onwards to Edinburgh the subthreshold delays with any of these activities would have spread like wildfire.

The preference these days is to call at High Street and or Bellgrove and then non stop up to Springburn in service.

Aye, that makes sense. With the potential delays these services could cause when terminating at either High Street or Bellgrove, it's curious that they weren't extended to Springburn before they were; no doubt there is a valid reason for it that I'm completely overlooking lol

 

[route101]

There was also at one time a train which terminated at Lenzie - I think the Bishopbriggs then ran back towards Cowlairs on the bi-di, whilst the Lenzie continued ECS to Gartshore loop to reverse and head back.

As noted by @30907 there was also at one time the St Annes - Greenbank which ran for a good number of years, apparently random start and terminating points, but the former permitted an additional off pattern a.m. peak service on the branch and the latter was the point from which the train could reverse and head back (again off pattern) to Manchester although when it was loco hauled for a period it instead ran ECS to Chester but I don't recall what happened to the return working (the loco hauled set came back in the evening I think as a Chester to Preston).

Memory is hazy but was there a Croy terminator too?

There was an evening peak service from Glasgow Queen St high level that used to terminate at Bishopbriggs. I also recall a Busby terminator on the East Kilbride line and services from Glasgow Central high level that terminated at Shotts rather than continuing on to Edinburgh. Also Edinburgh to Hamilton West via Shotts - legacy of when there used to be a DMU depot at Hamilton West.

Yes Busby used to have a service starting in the morning and a terminator at peak. The service in the morning used P2 and used the crossover.

Another service was Glasgow to New Cumnock, which operated until quite recently.

 

[30907]

That Leeds – Hebden Bridge service that was supposed to be operated by a Grand Central 180 appeared fairly random. It seemed to get cancelled a good proportion of the time but when it did run I expect Hebden Bridge was chosen as its destination because it is an easy station for the unit to reverse and return to where it was needed.

For several years, there was 1tph terminating/starting back there.

Alderley Edge has always seemed a bit of a strange one to me.

...apart from being the last major settlement for some miles.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Alderley Edge has always seemed a bit of a strange one to me.

...apart from being the last major settlement for some miles.

And conveniently having refuge sidings on both the Up (towards Crewe) and Down (towards Wilmslow) lines.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

I seem to remember in the last 15 years there was a train from Paddington which terminated at Bradford on Avon and a corresponding return working the following morning. Can’t remember exact details

 

[nw1]

Alderley Edge has always seemed a bit of a strange one to me.

Last stop in the core Manchester commuter belt, I guess.

Not a termination but a random start point, hopefully this is allowed.

Yes, that's fine, I gave one myself (the IC from Ealing Broadway to Manchester)...

I seem to remember in the last 15 years there was a train from Paddington which terminated at Bradford on Avon and a corresponding return working the following morning. Can’t remember exact details

Did it actually terminate at Bradford-on-Avon, or did it run through to Bristol but was advertised Bradford to dissuade Bath and Bristol passengers from using it?

(I do remember there was an evening peak service which went this way, but continued to Bristol.)

 

[Ken H]

Last stop in the core Manchester commuter belt, I guess.


Yes, that's fine, I gave one myself (the IC from Ealing Broadway to Manchester)...



Did it actually terminate at Bradford-on-Avon, or did it run through to Bristol but was advertised Bradford to dissuade Bath and Bristol passengers from using it?

(I do remember there was an evening peak service which went this way, but continued to Bristol.)

Leeds - harrogate - york trains used to be advertised as to poppleton only on leeds PIS and printed departure sheets. I dont know how common false deatinations were. Or indeed still are. To cumbrian coast trains get advertised as 'Carlisle' at Lancaster?

 

[BeijingDave]

I

I remember a St Annes-on-Sea to Greenbank service which ran via Manchester Piccadilly with top n tail 31s, I think it then worked ECS to Chester, but not sure what the remainder of the diagram was

In the same area, I'm fairly sure there were Greenfield starters (not sure about terminators) and Marsden starters and terminators (in fact, Marsden has 3 platforms), presumably due to these being the respective limits of GMPTE and West Yorkshire Metro back then.

Rock Ferry and Hooton on Merseyrail. As someone local, I understand why and know the history of the line, but a lot of local people (Cheshire and Merseyside) who don't use the train wouldn't be able to tell you where those places are - Rock Ferry is sort of an outlying suburb of Birkenhead really, and Hooton is a small village. Bidston as well.

 

[Ken H]

I

In the same area, I'm fairly sure there were Greenfield starters (not sure about terminators) and Marsden starters and terminators (in fact, Marsden has 3 platforms), presumably due to these being the respective limits of GMPTE and West Yorkshire Metro back then.

Rock Ferry and Hooton on Merseyrail. As someone local, I understand why and know the history of the line, but a lot of local people (Cheshire and Merseyside) who don't use the train wouldn't be able to tell you where those places are - Rock Ferry is sort of an outlying suburb of Birkenhead really, and Hooton is a small village. Bidston as well.

1978-79 there were marsden terminators. Here is a page from the GB TT

 

[Cheshire Scot]

In the same area, I'm fairly sure there were Greenfield starters (not sure about terminators) and Marsden starters and terminators (in fact, Marsden has 3 platforms), presumably due to these being the respective limits of GMPTE and West Yorkshire Metro back then.

Yes, there was a Greenfield terminator too which then ran forward to Diggle to reverse.

 

[43096]

Last stop in the core Manchester commuter belt, I guess.

It was also conveniently south of the junction of the Stockport and Styal lines, which was useful back in the day when three trains per hour turned round there (2tph via Styal, 1tph via Stockport; the second via Stockport was a Crewe starter).

 

[Tester]

Ore - as a terminating point it has come and gone over the years.

 

[Ken H]

Ore - as a terminating point it has come and gone over the years.

Wasnt that an operating convenience? Were there not electrified stabling facilities there?

 

[Cheshire Scot]

It was also conveniently south of the junction of the Stockport and Styal lines, which was useful back in the day when three trains per hour turned round there (2tph via Styal, 1tph via Stockport; the second via Stockport was a Crewe starter).

Alderley also had carriage sidings although I don't know if these pre-dated electrification or were put in then, but I assume as a stabling location there may also have been traincrew there. Also a handy location for anything that did terminate Wilmslow which did not have space for sidings.

 

[zwk500]

Leeds - harrogate - york trains used to be advertised as to poppleton only on leeds PIS and printed departure sheets. I dont know how common false deatinations were. Or indeed still are. To cumbrian coast trains get advertised as 'Carlisle' at Lancaster?

False destinations are crop up every now and again to avoid people heading for all-stations trains when there's a faster limited-stop service. York-Harrogate-Leeds trains are advertised at York as terminating at Burley Park, Paddington services certainly have shown Ealing Broadway at Reading before, although not sure if there was a counterpoint in the return direction. Not sure about Cumbrian Coast trains but believe they get advertised as Carlisle 'via X' for those that go all the way through (I think most services terminate at Barrow).

 

[LowLevel]

There used to be the odd service on the Cross City line that terminated at Blake Street for whatever reason.

 

[D6130]

That Leeds – Hebden Bridge service that was supposed to be operated by a Grand Central 180 appeared fairly random. It seemed to get cancelled a good proportion of the time but when it did run I expect Hebden Bridge was chosen as its destination because it is an easy station for the unit to reverse and return to where it was needed.

Grand Central crews have to sign Hebden Bridge as a diversionary route in the event of Dryclough Junction-Greetland Junction being blocked for engineering works. During the first lockdown in the Spring/Summer of 2020 there was a two-hourly Grand Central service from Leeds to Hebden Bridge and back, filling in for the cancelled York-Blackpool and vice-versa services. The purpose of this was primarily for the upkeep of GC crews' route knowledge, but it also provided a fill-in service for key workers. As travel restrictions gradually opened-up, these services became quite popular....especially the first class carriage!

 

[gg1]

There used to be the odd service on the Cross City line that terminated at Blake Street for whatever reason.

It used to be WMPTE/Centro boundary and is on the edge of the conurbation. In that sense it's a more logical termination point than Four Oaks, though the latter of course has the major advantage of a bay platform.

 

[Ken H]

It used to be WMPTE/Centro boundary and is on the edge of the conurbation. In that sense it's a more logical termination point than Four Oaks, though the latter of course has the major advantage of a bay platform.

There was a tow about the blake st trminators. They revrsed at a trailing crossover beyond the station. That was outside the pte area so the PTE would not fund it. They also would not fund a facing crossover south of the station. So the trains ran to Litchfield funded by public service obligation.

 

[47296lastduff]

Last summer I was going to Newark, and was surprised to find trains from Crewe terminating there (Castle station).

 

[D6975]

There was a tow about the blake st trminators. They revrsed at a trailing crossover beyond the station. That was outside the pte area so the PTE would not fund it. They also would not fund a facing crossover south of the station. So the trains ran to Litchfield funded by public service obligation.

Blake St does now have a facing crossover just before the station. 3 years ago I caught the first train of the morning from there, the arriving train used the crossover to arrive in the Brum bound platform and went straight back. This was in Aug 2019, possibly the last timetable in which it ran as it's not in the May 2020 TT.

Another odd starter was caused by the use of the GWR sleeper daytime coaches from St Erth in order to allow the set to run directly from Long Rock without any dragback or run round.

And of course the famous 'Highwayman' which ran to/from Finsbury Park to avoid occupying a platform at the Cross, a sensible move considering the underground connection.

Did it actually terminate at Bradford-on-Avon, or did it run through to Bristol but was advertised Bradford to dissuade Bath and Bristol passengers from using it?

(I do remember there was an evening peak service which went this way, but continued to Bristol.)

It did indeed run to TM, but as it was possible to get to Bristol earlier by waiting for the next train, it was shown as Bradford. Another one of these was the VEP on the Bournemouth stopper, shown as Pokesdown from Waterloo.

 

[nw1]

It did indeed run to TM, but as it was possible to get to Bristol earlier by waiting for the next train, it was shown as Bradford. Another one of these was the VEP on the Bournemouth stopper, shown as Pokesdown from Waterloo.

Yes, that's what I saw. Never saw the Bournemouth stopper on the board at Waterloo, but do know at Woking in the mid-80s it was announced as Bournemouth. (It actually departed 2 mins after the '92' semi-fast IIRC, so I guess could have been used for Woking Bournemouth journeys for those who just missed the '92'...)