Ranger & Rover Tickets - Shrouded in Secrecy

[MrJeeves]

railrover.org has a facility where you can select a station and see which rovers/rangers are valid at that station

When it's accurate, it's helpful indeed.

 

[joncombe]

Although withdrawn now I was sold the Strathclyde day ranger or whatever it was called because the member of staff at the ticket office found it was cheaper than the ticket I was buying (a return from Paisley Gilmour Street to Girvan I think). Saved me a fair bit as it was also valid on a bus I used. I didn't know of the existence of the ticket until then either.

Similarly I was sold a day ranger for the St Ives line as it was I believe the same price as a day return anyway.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I also like the South Pennine Day Ranger and the Derbyshire Wayfarer is very useful on saving money on the Sheffield-Burton/Uttoxeter corridors.

The latter day ranger product is priced at a very reasonable £15.40. An Off Peak Single from Sheffield to Burton-on-Trent (route via Derby) is £32.40. From New Mills Central to Burton-on-Trent, it's £46.30. Wonder if the Derbyshire Wayfarer is ever actually routinely offered to anyone wanting to make such journeys?

 

[Rover]

When it's accurate, it's helpful indeed.

Well I do my best to keep it up to date but I get no information from official sources so there will be times when there's been an alteration that I've not known about. There is a link to advise of any errors but sadly it is seldom used. Glad you find it helpful though - when it's accurate.

 

[MrJeeves]

Well I do my best to keep it up to date but I get no information from official sources so there will be times when there's been an alteration that I've not known about. There is a link to advise of any errors but sadly it is seldom used. Glad you find it helpful though - when it's accurate.

Ooh, I'd never noticed that link. I'll use it from now on if I spot anything. Thanks!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The All Line Rover is a product of Network Rail, where comprehensive access to Rangers and Rovers is provided.

I think you mean National Rail, (NRE/ATOC/RDG) which has ranger/rover information on its site, under Tickets/Special Offers, although you have to go to a TOC web site or station to buy them.
Network Rail don't own ticketing products or sell them.

Train Special Offers and Promotions | National Rail

One this page you can find information on National Rail products such as Rangers & Rovers, Railcards, Promotions and PlusBus tickets.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[BrianW]

I think you mean National Rail, (NRE/ATOC/RDG) which has ranger/rover information on its site, under Tickets/Special Offers, although you have to go to a TOC web site or station to buy them.
Network Rail don't own ticketing products or sell them.

Train Special Offers and Promotions | National Rail

One this page you can find information on National Rail products such as Rangers & Rovers, Railcards, Promotions and PlusBus tickets.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

You're right of course. Thank you for correcting me gently. Brian

 

[Western 52]

Some of the information on the NR site regarding rovers is out of date. For example the price shown for Explorer Wales is from a while ago!

 

[Puffing Devil]

www(dot)railrover(dot)org is being flagged as potentially compromised by my Malwarebytes.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

www(dot)railrover(dot)org is being flagged as potentially compromised by my Malwarebytes.

That might just be due to the use of HTTP instead of HTTPS. This just means the connection is not encrypted, but since there is no entry of passwords or personal details, there's no problem.

 

[Rover]

www(dot)railrover(dot)org is being flagged as potentially compromised by my Malwarebytes.

I can assure you and everybody else there is no malware on the site.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I can assure you and everybody else there is no malware on the site.

It could be the lack of HTTPS support that Malwarebyes has taken offence to, though the warning is "Compromised sites (or servers) are otherwise legitimate sites that are being used by hackers without the owner’s knowledge."

 

[anothertyke]

As an interesting aside, do anyone have any insight into weather Rovers and Rangers are used (in any regularity) by anyone OTHER than Enthusiasts?
I can see how, for example, how Walkers in the Peak District might use the Derbys Wayfarer if, say, walking between Stations etc..or making multiple trips but do any Tourists or Holidaymakers (Domestic and International) use, say, a 7 Day North West Rover?

Definitely. I have used the North Country Rover to do four good walks in a week from Leeds ( Black Combe, the Lion and the Lamb, Claughton to Whitby and Sandsend to Saltburn). When I did the Dales Way, the NW Round Robin was the most cost-effective way of doing the Ribblehead to Sedbergh section. The fact that they are not tied to specific trains is a big advantage over Advance fares. WY Dayrover is brilliant for sections of the Pennine Way from Marsden to Cowling, around 40 miles.

 

[Rover]

It could be the lack of HTTPS support that Malwarebyes has taken offence to, though the warning is "Compromised sites (or servers) are otherwise legitimate sites that are being used by hackers without the owner’s knowledge."

Thank you, noted.

 

[krus_aragon]

In defense of Malwarebytes et.al, they are correct in stating that without a signed HTTPS connection, there's no guarantee that your website requests haven't been intercepted and redirected to another server that's masquerading as railrover.org .

Whether that's a significant risk is up to you to decide.

 

[Dr Day]

I would assume most individual TOCs would probably prefer not to have them, particularly if they undercut certain point to point fares but rather than risk the backlash of withdrawing them RDG as National Rail just do enough keep them alive without the cost of promotion. Many are valid across different TOCs so may get a resurgence if GBR starts thinking on a more national rail v cars basis than the current situation with each TOC looking to maximise its own revenue rather than that of the industry as a whole.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

In defense of Malwarebytes et.al, they are correct in stating that without a signed HTTPS connection, there's no guarantee that your website requests haven't been intercepted and redirected to another server that's masquerading as railrover.org .

Whether that's a significant risk is up to you to decide.

Unless someone's interested in figuring out what train stations people might live near to (combining IP address, typically only useful on city/country scale and the choice of a station to see from), there's no benefit.
There's not even an open text box to intercept.
A server pretending to be railrover.org would just be a waste of everything.

While yes, technically it's a danger, the danger is so incredibly small and meaningless. If someone was concerned about that they could also just send multiple requests for random stations alongside that too.

 

[Adam Williams]

Unless someone's interested in figuring out what train stations people might live near to (combining IP address, typically only useful on city/country scale and the choice of a station to see from), there's no benefit.
There's not even an open text box to intercept.
A server pretending to be railrover.org would just be a waste of everything.

While yes, technically it's a danger, the danger is so incredibly small and meaningless. If someone was concerned about that they could also just send multiple requests for random stations alongside that too.

The risk is not a passive MitM. The risk is an active MitM - e.g. to rewrite the page to serve malware, ask for credentials/perform phishing attacks.... Every website needs TLS to protect the integrity of the page - and browsers/local anti-malware applications are entirely right to warn of a risk. There's really no excuse anymore, DV certificates don't cost anything.

In defense of Malwarebytes et.al, they are correct in stating that without a signed HTTPS connection, there's no guarantee that your website requests haven't been intercepted and redirected to another server that's masquerading as railrover.org .

Entirely correct.

 

[David Goddard]

Be great to see more promotion of Rovers and Rangers, as they are excellent value and a useful tool for the industry to draw leisure traffic in away from other modes.
Some TOCs have in the past produced useful leaflets describing their rangers (Northern's was more of a booklet once they had included all of the various products). Unsure if many still do, most leaflet racks these days seem to be filled with "how to complain" leaflets rather than positive information to help people travel (like a timetable - remember them!)
Could even be scope for a TV series featuring some of the areas that are covered by Rovers and Rangers (something like Great Railway Journeys but with more emphasis on the getting around than the historical stories).

 

[richw]

Similarly I was sold a day ranger for the St Ives line as it was I believe the same price as a day return anyway.

I believe similar rovers exist for all Cornish branch lines, with the Rover being the same price as a day return. Or at least that was the case a few years back

 

[The exile]

I believe similar rovers exist for all Cornish branch lines, with the Rover being the same price as a day return. Or at least that was the case a few years back

No longer. Just St Ives IIRC.

 

[anothertyke]

Be great to see more promotion of Rovers and Rangers, as they are excellent value and a useful tool for the industry to draw leisure traffic in away from other modes.
Some TOCs have in the past produced useful leaflets describing their rangers (Northern's was more of a booklet once they had included all of the various products). Unsure if many still do, most leaflet racks these days seem to be filled with "how to complain" leaflets rather than positive information to help people travel (like a timetable - remember them!)
Could even be scope for a TV series featuring some of the areas that are covered by Rovers and Rangers (something like Great Railway Journeys but with more emphasis on the getting around than the historical stories).

I think in Northernland a lot of the potential traffic has been taken by the newspaper offer and other bargain offers.

The other point is that to promote something you need a reliable service to offer. I have been up to the Lakes and Dales by train eight times this year. Two resulted in delays of over an hour ( air rifle incident at Kirkstall, track circuit failure at Ribblehead). On two other days I had to abandon (fatality at Oxenholme, failed freight train at Kirkstall). And I monitored pretty carefully for Northern cancellations.

In the ten years I've been doing this since retirement, 2023 has been the worst by far.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Be great to see more promotion of Rovers and Rangers, as they are excellent value and a useful tool for the industry to draw leisure traffic in away from other modes.
Some TOCs have in the past produced useful leaflets describing their rangers (Northern's was more of a booklet once they had included all of the various products). Unsure if many still do...

Northern have, in 2023, again issued their rather useful "Guide to train services, Coast, Lakes, Dales & Fells" brochure/booklet which covers a fair part of the North West, and includes details and validity maps of many of the Rovers and Rangers which can be used in the area.


(Pic of a display stand containing several "Guide to train services, Coast, Lakes, Dales & Fells" brochure/booklets).

 

[Trainlog]

There are probably hundreds of great value Ranger and Rover tickets available throughout the UK, but many are shrouded in secrecy with little or no marketing.

I get that many of the products could be described as niche and may only appeal to enthusiasts but there are many very useful tickets that really need better exposure.

Some examples are:

North Wales Day Rover Ticket, split into four different travel zones valid on bus and train
Derbyshire Wayfarer, apart from the long standing rail and bus version there is now a bus only version for just £8



There is no publicity for the above products apart from a brief mention hidden away on the appropriate website. No leaflets, posters on buses, bus stops or rail stations. No social media posts or advertising on Facebook, Twitter etc.

What other useful ranger and rover tickets are out there that would be useful to the general travelling public (not just enthusiasts) but have little or no marketing?

I definitely agree with you on this, The Southern daysaver is a brilliant ticket that has little to no promotion around its existence - i only found out about it from a Geoff Marshall video a few years back. I have used this ticket a fair few times since the pandemic, and the ticket is so little used that you often have to explain to guards or barrier staff about what it does!

Its sad really as better awareness of any rover ticket will mean that it gets rid of one of the complaints the British public has on trains compared to cars, you can only go to one destination unless its something like the London travelcard. Southeastern does one down here aswell but its limited to Kent only so you cant go to Hastings on it and it suffers from the same problems as the rest of the rovers with a lack of promotion around its existence.

When it comes to the tickets promotion, its not like the companies have anything to lose in advertising them. Pretty sure everyone has seen at least one train advert from their local train operator pop up in various formats - forever seeing ads for the Southeastern Key card. Apart from their promotion, the only other thing i would change about them is the rule regarding you have to order them 3 days ahead of your journey rather than buying it on the day like a London zones 1-6 travelcard.

Buy DaySave Train Ticket | DaySave Train Ticket | Southern Railway

Get unlimited Off-Peak travel on Southern services with DaySave

www.southernrailway.com

Kent Rover | Southeastern

Enjoy three consecutive days of unlimited off-peak train travel

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

 

[800001]

I definitely agree with you on this, The Southern daysaver is a brilliant ticket that has little to no promotion around its existence - i only found out about it from a Geoff Marshall video a few years back. I have used this ticket a fair few times since the pandemic, and the ticket is so little used that you often have to explain to guards or barrier staff about what it does!

Its sad really as better awareness of any rover ticket will mean that it gets rid of one of the complaints the British public has on trains compared to cars, you can only go to one destination unless its something like the London travelcard. Southeastern does one down here aswell but its limited to Kent only so you cant go to Hastings on it and it suffers from the same problems as the rest of the rovers with a lack of promotion around its existence.

When it comes to the tickets promotion, its not like the companies have anything to lose in advertising them. Pretty sure everyone has seen at least one train advert from their local train operator pop up in various formats - forever seeing ads for the Southeastern Key card. Apart from their promotion, the only other thing i would change about them is the rule regarding you have to order them 3 days ahead of your journey rather than buying it on the day like a London zones 1-6 travelcard.

Buy DaySave Train Ticket | DaySave Train Ticket | Southern Railway

Get unlimited Off-Peak travel on Southern services with DaySave

www.southernrailway.com

Kent Rover | Southeastern

Enjoy three consecutive days of unlimited off-peak train travel

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

I also used this ticket for travel on the southern south coast services from Brighton! Fantastic value should be advertised more.

 

[Haywain]

it gets rid of one of the complaints the British public has on trains compared to cars, you can only go to one destination unless its something like the London travelcard.

I have never heard anyone complain about this.

 

[Dr Day]

Playing devil's advocate here, but maybe the TOCs (or DfT/WG/TS) have concluded that the costs of advertising Rangers and Rovers would be more than the additional net revenue received from what is a fairly niche market, particularly when revenues are typically shared between TOCs. Promoting their brands or Ryanair style 'Advance fares from' may be a more cost effective use of their budgets, rather than something which undercuts their more 'profitable' fares. They also don't provide data on when and where people are travelling. May just be easier to leave them be, putting them up broadly in line with other tickets each year (to avoid creating new anomalies), rather than withdraw them and incur the wrath of a minority who would care.

 

[redreni]

Thanks for starting this thread and bringing the railrover website to my attention!

I have an upcoming trip to Halifax and Leeds on a Saturday where, due to a combination of Hull Trains' long booking horizon and my relucance to rely on GC, I have booked an advance single from Kings Cross to Doncaster, keeping my options open for onward travel. I had not considered the West Yorkshire DaySaver (I didn't even know it existed) but I now realise it gives me a useful additional option.

My plan is to arrive in Doncaster, have brunch, then proceed to Halifax buying whatever tickets are appropriate depending how time is getting on and what is running. Then at some point in the evening I'll need to take a train to Leeds and then a bus to Headingly, where I'm staying over. The main ticket options being

(1) if the early afternoon GC train is running, to buy a GC-only single from Doncaster to Halifax (meaning I'd also need to buy an Advance Single Halifax to Leeds later on and pay the capped £2 bus fare), or
(2) buy a single to South Elmsall and an off-peak day return from South Elmsall to Halifax (which would give me flexibility on which train I catch from Halifax to Leeds in the evening - I would stop short at Leeds on the return leg and would still need to buy a bus ticket).

The irritating thing about option 2, however, was the requirement to use a train that calls at South Elmsall. I now realise that if I buy a single from Doncaster to South Elmsall and a West Yorkshire DaySaver Bus+Train, at £10.10 for the DaySaver this is not only 70p cheaper than the £8.80 day return plus the £2 bus fare, but as far as I can see there's nothing to stop me taking a fast LNER train from Doncaster to Leeds on that combination of tickets?

Does anyone know if it's possible to buy those tickets at Doncaster? I'm conscious Doncaster is not in West Yorkshire.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Does anyone know if it's possible to buy those tickets at Doncaster? I'm conscious Doncaster is not in West Yorkshire.

It’s in the fares database - you should be able to buy these at any staffed ticket office or a Northern TVM.

This includes both Doncaster’s Travel Centre and the one at King’s Cross too, so you get to take your pick!

 

[redreni]

It’s in the fares database - you should be able to buy these at any staffed ticket office or a Northern TVM.

This includes both Doncaster’s Travel Centre and the one at King’s Cross too, so you get to take your pick!

Thanks!

I doubt I'll be in a position to decide between option (1) above and the South Elmsall single + DaySaver option until I'm in Doncaster. The price is similar either way but I don't think splitting at South Elmsall would be valid on the GC between Doncaster and Halifax because, from memory, that train heads north straight up the ECML initially and then makes it's way west via Pontefract and Wakefield Kirkgate. I can't find an economical split point on that route so if I go that way I'll just buy singles from Doncaster to Halifax, Halifax to Leeds and a £2 single on the bus from Leeds to Headingley.

It's good to have options, though, (particularly where GC is concerned) and if I do want to go via Leeds then the single to the boundary station plus the Rover really is exceptionally good value compared to any other ticket valid on LNER. No wonder the marketing division of LNER shows absolutely no sign of wanting to make passengers aware that Rovers and Rangers exist!