Rank a TOC's rolling stock from best to worst

[Chris217]

Merseyrail

507
508

or maybe

508
507

I can't decide!

Pmsl

 

[507021]

Northern.

EMU: 323, 331, 333, a very large gap, 319.
DMU: 195, 158, 170, 156, 155, 153, 150.

 

[Juniper Driver]

This type of ranking always ends up biased towards traditional long distance stock, which would be totally unsuitable for shorter distance routes

On South Western for example I'd much rather travel on a 444 than on a 450, never mind high density stock like the 455 or 707, but the 444 would be a disaster on the stopping services out of Waterloo.

Ditto the Chiltern Mk3s, where the tiny end doors would increase dwell time enormously when compared to the 168s and Turbos

We had a job once (before 2007) Where we used to work a 444 to Hounslow then empties to Fratton AFAIR.

 

[LiftFan]

Throwing in my two pence.

GWR:
HST Castle Sets (Quality)
158 (Comfortable seats, air conditioning)
150 (Not rated well by others but has plug sockets for charging, openable windows, comfy seats and I actually like the engine noise)
387 (Fantastic units, do their jobs perfectly but uncomfortable seats)
143 (Falling apart but another comfortable unit to ride and good for those less used routes)
800/802 (Good acceleration and all but no buffet car and rock solid seats for long journeys brings this units down a lot)
165 (Slow, comfy seats but obviously falling apart. Good air cooling though.)
166 (Comfy seats but WHY 2+3 for Cardiff-Portsmouth, no seat back tables, air con makes an annoying whine, falling apart and still really slow)

CrossCountry:
HST (7 carriages, plenty of room, comfortable and have the seat reservations)
170 (Nice to ride, comfy seats, not too cramped but never have enough carriages for the services they are on)
221 (Same as 220 but an extra carriage)
220 (Nowhere near enough capacity, seats feel cramped especially with a rando sat next to you, smells like a portaloo)

London Underground:
1972TS (Slow but ancient, comfy seats, bouncy as a trampoline and make a lovely sound
1996TS (Fast, great traction noise)
1995TS (Basically same as 1996TS with a different but still good noise)
S7/S8TS (Air conditioning on the tube? Bloody fantastic!)
1992TS (Fast and a good traction sound, very comfortable ride and nice windows)
1973TS (Slow but comfy, good traction noise)
2009TS (Fast but ear piercing with the screeching, also why no air con on brand new trains?)

Not ridden enough of other TOCs but why all the hate for the Mk3 based multiple units? Networker turbos are far worse and bar the GA Stadler units all of the new trains I've ridden have had the worst seats!

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Crosscountry equally easy!
HST
221
220

(221s above 220s because the heavier bogies make them ride slightly better, and most of them are 5-car so slightly less overcrowding under normal circumstances).

What about the 170's ? Obviously I prefer a 3-car one turning up instead of a 2-car as seat reservations in Coach A or C is easier to get to.

But yep - HST's are the top of my CrossCountry trains list for favourite trains in their fleet, naturally.

 

[py_megapixel]

Not ridden enough of other TOCs but why all the hate for the Mk3 based multiple units? Networker turbos are far worse and bar the GA Stadler units all of the new trains I've ridden have had the worst seats!

In my opinion (and I'm one of the Mk3-MU haters, I'm sorry to say), they are:

1. Unacceptably noisy - and none of them sound of anything interesting; the diesels are just this loud unceasing rumble and the electrics are just a buzz. If you want a nice sound, try a Networker (an electric one) or, better still, a 323
2. Uncomfortably seated. The seats in them are too low to the floor and there is too little legroom. Of course, if you aren't built like I am (quite tall with very long legs) then this will be less of an issue.
3. Outdated - they just feel worn out and their design now looks very dated. They're also draughty and the lighting is dingy.
4. Slow, by modern standards - you always know when a 319 ends up on a 323 or 331 diagram in the North, because it turns up late!

Some refurbishments have partially fixed some or all of these points, however.

You are absolutely right that the Turbos are falling apart inside, and GWR promised a comprehensive interior refurb of them at the last franchise extension. This still hasn't happened unfortunately, but I live in hope...

 

[Railperf]

Greater Anglia best to worst:
745/0
755/4
755/3
745/1
360
379
720
321 Renatus
321
317

More often than not, especially early morning (e.g. 0712 from WEL to LEI) the 4 cars of standard (pre COVID) would fill up much quicker than the 3 cars of 1st. HSTs had 5 standard cars and 3 first cars. In my opinion, Coach F should have half of its 1st removed in a 222.

I might have rated the 222s higher if the following were fixed:
1) Metallic windows in carriages. Yes, the windows of 222s have metal film/RF screening, making phone signals nonexistent and putting excessive pressure on the WiFi. The 43s and Mk3s do not have this problem, I don't use the WiFi on a Mk3 because I can get up to 70Mbps on 4G. The latter is impossible on a 222 due to the RF screening, and 0.1Mbps WiFi is completely useless.
2) Interior revamp, the interiors on the 222s aren't looking their best, with rips/tears/wear on the seats and windows that are filling up with condensation. At least the seats are 2+2 though.
3) interior lighting. Small lamps in the overhead luggage racks that have different color temperatures as the bulbs are replaced. Harsh looking light (possibly CFL?). Inefficient halogen lamps above the central walkway. The fluorescent tubes and LED lamps (in the vestibule ends) in the Blue EMT Mk3s are much better.

As things stand, the 43s and Mk3s are much better than a 222 due to the above points (especially the Faraday Cage Windows).

Agreed. Faraday cage glass a pain.

 

[Dhansak]

On my patch (Southern), I would rate the trains as follows.

171
First batch 377/1 (377101 - 377119 only). 2x2 seating throughout.
377/3 also 2x2 throughout (except I guess 377342, which is reduced 377/4, so would have 3x2 in the centre carriage)
377140 onwards, 377/2 and 377/4 end carriages (but not over the bogies as the ride can be very tough)
377/6, 377/7 and likely 387/2 (not travelled on the latter, but they have the same seating as the others in this group). Ironing board seats.
313 do the job they were brought in to do.
455 a bit noisy and tatty now, but not bad trains.
377120 - 377139. So unpopular, that many commuters seem to know the numbers and actively avoid them, even on the really busy services. You see them legging it up the platform if the lead unit is one of these horrors. 3x2 seating throughout.

 

[RichardKing]

377120 - 377139. So unpopular, that many commuters seem to know the numbers and actively avoid them, even on the really busy services. You see them legging it up the platform if the lead unit is one of these horrors. 3x2 seating throughout.

You do get the comfortable seating at the end of each coach in these units. Most of the time though they are already taken as, as you say, no one wants to sit on the ironing boards!

 

[Dhansak]

You're right. But as with the others, the ride can be a rough as hell as the few 2x2 seats are over the bogies, so it's a bit of a case of the devil and the deep blue sea with these.

 

[fgwrich]

On my patch (Southern), I would rate the trains as follows.

171
First batch 377/1 (377101 - 377119 only). 2x2 seating throughout.
377/3 also 2x2 throughout (except I guess 377342, which is reduced 377/4, so would have 3x2 in the centre carriage)
377140 onwards, 377/2 and 377/4 end carriages (but not over the bogies as the ride can be very tough)
377/6, 377/7 and likely 387/2 (not travelled on the latter, but they have the same seating as the others in this group). Ironing board seats.
313 do the job they were brought in to do.
455 a bit noisy and tatty now, but not bad trains.
377120 - 377139. So unpopular, that many commuters seem to know the numbers and actively avoid them, even on the really busy services. You see them legging it up the platform if the lead unit is one of these horrors. 3x2 seating throughout.

I have to ask, as it's been some time since I travelled on Southern, what interior do 377120-139 have these days?

Is it the 2+2 Chunky seats like this?

Interior of Class 377 415, London Victoria

Standard class. Rather comfy I must say.

www.flickr.com

Or have they fitted them with the awful, hateful, 3+2 Ironing boards like this?

Southern Class 377 interior

Explore Nuutti Hyttinen's 2760 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[Dhansak]

3x2 ironing board seats throughout, with the exception of the inner ends of the driving trailers and first class. There are also some 2x2 ironing boards at the end of one of the intermediates.

 

[fgwrich]

3x2 ironing board seats throughout, with the exception of the inner ends of the driving trailers and first class. There are also some 2x2 ironing boards at the end of one of the intermediates.

Thanks, certainly not the best interiors then. From memory, those aisles are ridiculously narrow too.

 

[Dhansak]

They are. When the train is full, it is very difficult to more through the carriage. I do wonder how safe they are in the event of an emergency evacuation.

Being pedantic, that first link you show with the 2x2 seating says it is from unit 377415, but given the layout (some seats are single bank without tables) and the design of the seat handles, it looks like an intermediate carriage from either 377101-119 or a 377/3.

Edit: Just seen the comments on the Flickr page saying the same thing!

 

[spotify95]

I have a minor gripe with the 22x fleet as well. The CrossCountry ones at least have this sort of cream-coloured enamelled coating on the seat backs and the fold down tray-tables. This chips off really easily, exposing the surface beneath, which is a much darker colour, and give the impression that the seats are rusting.

Also, something in their design has a resonant frequency which exactly matches the engine at one specific point in the acceleration, so every time the train accelerates, there is this buzzing vibration sound for a couple of seconds a certain amount of time after the engine revvs up. A very minor thing I know, but it gets on my nerves.

1) I've noticed that on some of the well used EMR 222 tables/chairs. Wondered why some of the paint was flaking away, now I know.
2) The resonant frequency thing... I picked up on that straightaway, even when first using the 222s (the 220s and 221s also have it), and I couldn't pinpoint what was causing it... It's just a few seconds into the acceleration from stationary IIRC? Thanks for confirming that it wasn't me imagining things!

22x were the UK's first go at a high-power underfloor-engined InterCity DEMU. It's understandable that there are shortcomings, and the 80x is a considerably improved version of the same sort of thing. (The least said about 180s the better).

If those 180s don't have the silly metal screening in the windows (the stuff that blocks out RF and prevents a phone signal from coming through) then they're an improvement on the 22x, no matter what the rest of the train may be like... has anyone else checked this?
Hopefully the 810s are better than the 222s (when we get them in 2023).

 

[fgwrich]

1) I've noticed that on some of the well used EMR 222 tables/chairs. Wondered why some of the paint was flaking away, now I know.
2) The resonant frequency thing... I picked up on that straightaway, even when first using the 222s (the 220s and 221s also have it), and I couldn't pinpoint what was causing it... It's just a few seconds into the acceleration from stationary IIRC? Thanks for confirming that it wasn't me imagining things!
If those 180s don't have the silly metal screening in the windows (the stuff that blocks out RF and prevents a phone signal from coming through) then they're an improvement on the 22x, no matter what the rest of the train may be like... has anyone else checked this?
Hopefully the 810s are better than the 222s (when we get them in 2023).

Already an improvement then - the 180s have laminated glass with a slight window tint, but not the silvery film used on the 22X fleet.

The first photo by the way is that annoying block on the table leg base which either gets in your way, or rattles as the engine vibrates. The second two are FGW 180s at Didcot - but you can see the how better the windows are.