Reading to London Terminals — end destination London Bridge

[Jimini]

Afternoon folks. I’ve just bought the above ticket (anytime day return) for Monday morning. Quick q: is it valid on the tube to get to London Bridge, or am I best keeping it simple and getting the Elizabeth Line to Farringdon and then changing for a Thameslink service to London Bridge? Also, am I likely to get any “that’s not valid beyond Paddington” shenanigans en route or would you say it’s a fairly common occurrence for someone to use it to get across town?

Thanks in advance as always ~ Jim.

 

[Hadders]

Exactly what tickeyt have you purchased?

If it's an Anytime Day Return from Reading/Reading West to London Terminals then it isn't valid beyond Paddington. It's not valid on the Underground either.

It is valid on National Rail services via Ascot into Waterloo and then onto London Bridge via Waterloo East but this takes much longer than a fast train to Paddington.

 

[Roger1973]

I'm not a fares expert, but have lived a few stations east of Reading on the South Western line for some years.

'London Terminals' is almost always not valid on the underground, and I'm not sure about the Elizabeth Line / Thameslink option either.

It may be valid on trains via Waterloo - cross to Waterloo East - South Eastern to London Bridge (A 'London Terminals' ticket from here is valid to the old 'southern region' termini so the barriers at Waterloo (main) don't eat it, and you can cross to Waterloo East and continue a journey to Charing Cross / London Bridge and then on to Cannon Street or at least Blackfriars, or change at Clapham Junction and go to Victoria. (I've never been sure how far north on Thameslink it's valid but if I'm going much further than the south bank then I tend to do the travelcard thing.)

But this is going to be a bit slower from Reading (there are times when I pay the bit extra and go via Reading and Paddington)

 

[Watershed]

Is it possible that @Jimini used a "dumb" TVM, entered London Bridge as the destination, and was sold an "Any Permitted" London Terminals ticket?

If so, there may be an argument that this constituted mis-selling or overcharging. I can't really see any situation in which such a fare should be sold when London Bridge has been specified as the destination, since it is only valid to London Bridge if you go via Waterloo and Waterloo East, for which there is a cheaper "via Staines" fare.

 

[Roger1973]

At the risk of being shouted down for heresy, I don't think the railways do themselves favours with the 'London Terminals' thing on tickets.

While many of us on here know to a greater or lesser extent that it's not as simple as that, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for the average member of the public to assume that 'London Terminals' means the central London terminus stations, even if it's one the other side of London to where they are starting from.

At one time, tickets from (what was then) Southern Region stations were issued to 'London (SR)' which was a bit clearer. I wouldn't have made a journey starting from north of the river at that time, so not sure what the equivalents were from other directions. And that was before Thameslink started crossing London (and long before Elizabeth Line.)

 

[Hadders]

I’m inclined to agree, but how would you change it.

You could say that tickets to London Terminals are valid to any terminal, regardless of which side of the river they’re on. If you do that the fares would need to increase to make up the revenue shortfall and people who do not require the extra validity would not thank you for doing that!

You could restrict the Routeing to a specific terminal only. But then people who make use of that additional validity, many bit certainly not all of them south of the Thames, would not be happy.

You could use a different destination to ‘London Terminals’ but what would that be. The Reading ticket we’re talking about is valid into ‘Southern BR’ but only via Ascot, not via Farringdon.

The simplest way for a journey from Reading to London is probably to use contactless (unless you’ve got a railcard)

 

[JonathanH]

The simplest way for a journey from Reading to London is probably to use contactless (unless you’ve got a railcard)

...unless you want to go via Staines...

 

[Hadders]

...unless you want to go via Staines...

True, although hopefully Project Oval fixes that.

 

[Jimini]

Thanks for the replies, all. Here’s an extract from the confirmation email:


———————————————————


Journey: 1 Reading or Reading West to London Terminals @ £57.90
Anytime Day Return £57.90 (1 @ £57.90)


Journey: 1 Reading or Reading West to London Terminals
Ticket type: Anytime Day Return Valid outward and return by the route shown, return same day.
Route: Travel is allowed via any permitted route.
Outward journey: 24 Jun 2024
Suggested service departs Reading at 08:13 travel by Train service provider Great Western Railway to station London Paddington arrives 08:38


Return journey: 24 Jun 2024
Suggested service departs London Paddington at 18:01 travel by Train service provider Great Western Railway to station Reading arrives 18:24

London Terminals: The following London stations are available for travel with the chosen ticket:
• London Paddington (PAD)
• London Blackfriars (BFR)
• City Thameslink (CTK)
• London Cannon Street (CST)
• London Charing Cross (CHX)
• London Bridge (LBG)
• London Waterloo East (WAE)
• London Victoria (VIC)
• London Waterloo (WAT)

Travel to any other London station is not permitted with this ticket.

——————————————————

To be honest I was expecting to use contactless to continue my journey from Paddington to London Bridge, but the last paragraph piqued my interest in the potential validity across town!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would exiting through the barriers (at London Paddington) on a Reading to London Terminals ticket be effectively deemed to be the end of the outward journey?

 

[Watershed]

Would exiting through the barriers (at London Paddington) on a Reading to London Terminals ticket be effectively deemed to be the end of the outward journey?

Yes. The ticket has no further validity once you've travelled to Paddington, so I'd expect the ticket to be retained by the barriers.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes. The ticket has no further validity once you've travelled to Paddington, so I'd expect the ticket to be retained by the barriers.

So, if you're wanting to get from Reading to London Bridge by rail, travelling via London Paddington, is not the way to go, without paying extra. What route does work?

 

[CyrusWuff]

So, if you're wanting to get from Reading to London Bridge by rail, travelling via London Paddington, is not the way to go, without paying extra. What route does work?

I'd assume Reading - Waterloo - Waterloo East - London Bridge

 

[Hadders]

I'd assume Reading - Waterloo - Waterloo East - London Bridge

That’s the way you’d have to go. It’s not valid via Farringdon.

For information the Peak contactless fare from Reading to Paddington is £29.00 and Off Peak £12.60. If no railcards are held then contactless could be significantly cheaper if you can avoid touching between 16:00 - 19:00 on your return.

If you did want to travel from Reading to London Bridge using contactless then it would cost £32.70 peak it £15.70 off peak.

 

[Watershed]

If you did want to travel from Reading to London Bridge using contactless

Which, for the avoidance of doubt, would not be permitted via Ascot, as contactless is only valid to Reading via Slough.

 

[Benjwri]

That’s the way you’d have to go. It’s not valid via Farringdon.

For information the Peak contactless fare from Reading to Paddington is £29.00 and Off Peak £12.60. If no railcards are held then contactless could be significantly cheaper if you can avoid touching between 16:00 - 19:00 on your return.

If you did want to travel from Reading to London Bridge using contactless then it would cost £32.70 peak it £15.70 off peak.

Although worth remembering a Reading to London Underground Zone 1, route Any Permitted day return priced at £31.20 Off Peak, and £64.00 Peak (So cheaper by a matter of around a pound) is valid via both Paddington and Waterloo, and would include travelling to London Bridge however you wish as long as you are travelling on the Tube (Or an inter available route such as the Liz Line between Paddington and Abbey Wood, and the Thameslink Core between West Hampstead and London Bridge/Elephant and Castle) after reaching a London Terminal station.

 

[Bread & cheese]

That’s the way you’d have to go.

According to the National Rail Enquiries app, it is also valid via Clapham Junction and Peckham Rye (specify eg via Wandsworth Road).

 

[etr221]

A question on this (having just found it by accident):
The ticket info quoted by the OP states (inter alia) that it is valid 'By any permitted route' and (specifically) that it is valid to London Bridge.
By my reckoning the shortest distance from Reading to London Bridge is via Crossrail to Farringdon, thence Thameslink. Am I correct in this, and if so, is it - as the shortest route - a permitted route?
So is the OP's ticket valid for travel by Elizabeth Line train to Farringdon, then by Thameslink on to London Bridge? If not, why not?

 

[BongoStar]

I have been on this route many times. I think you have overbought the ticket needed for this.

You could have bought as follows:

Anytime day single RDG to PAD: £30.60
Tube across to London Bridge: £2.8
Buy an off peak Reading to London Zone travelcard with railcard: £18.50

Total: £51.90

That would have given you unlimited travel within London and return trip back. Obviously you would be slightly restricted on timing for return trip, but if that is not an issue then worth it.

Alternatively, if your sole purpose is London Bridge meeting and return in peak time, then you could simply purchase an Anytime single from London Zone to Reading for £22.15 instead of the £18.50 travelcard coming to a total of £55.55.

Both above are still cheaper than the £57.90 plus potential tube fares you will have to incur.

 

[Somewhere]

A question on this (having just found it by accident):
The ticket info quoted by the OP states (inter alia) that it is valid 'By any permitted route' and (specifically) that it is valid to London Bridge.
By my reckoning the shortest distance from Reading to London Bridge is via Crossrail to Farringdon, thence Thameslink. Am I correct in this, and if so, is it - as the shortest route - a permitted route?
So is the OP's ticket valid for travel by Elizabeth Line train to Farringdon, then by Thameslink on to London Bridge? If not, why not?

No, its not valid beyond Paddington. Because when you get to Paddington, you've reached your London Terminal. Its not valid to cross London

 

[etr221]

No, its not valid beyond Paddington. Because when you get to Paddington, you've reached your London Terminal. Its not valid to cross London

But (a) it is specifically stated as being valid to London Bridge, and via Paddington, is, as the shortest route, a Permitted Route from Reading to London Bridge; and (b) many of the other routes, accepted as valid, to London Terminals (not necessarily from Reading) do involve passing through another London Terminal station (noting in particular that three of those listed on the OPs confirmation e-mail can only be reached via another listed London Terminal). Also noting that Paddington Crossrail is a through, not a terminal, station.

 

[Hadders]

A question on this (having just found it by accident):
The ticket info quoted by the OP states (inter alia) that it is valid 'By any permitted route' and (specifically) that it is valid to London Bridge.
By my reckoning the shortest distance from Reading to London Bridge is via Crossrail to Farringdon, thence Thameslink. Am I correct in this, and if so, is it - as the shortest route - a permitted route?
So is the OP's ticket valid for travel by Elizabeth Line train to Farringdon, then by Thameslink on to London Bridge? If not, why not?

The ticket is to London Terminals rather than specifically to London Bridge. The shortest route from Reading to London Terminals is to Paddington.

Once you reach a London Terminal then you cannot carry on beyond it to a non-London Terminal Station. Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road and Farringdon aren't London Terminals so you cannot go that way.

You can reach London Bridge via Vauxhall, Waterloo and Waterloo East. This is fine as they are all London Terminals and you're not passing through a non-London Terminal station.

 

[Mark J]

Afternoon folks. I’ve just bought the above ticket (anytime day return) for Monday morning. Quick q: is it valid on the tube to get to London Bridge, or am I best keeping it simple and getting the Elizabeth Line to Farringdon and then changing for a Thameslink service to London Bridge? Also, am I likely to get any “that’s not valid beyond Paddington” shenanigans en route or would you say it’s a fairly common occurrence for someone to use it to get across town?

Thanks in advance as always ~ Jim.

You can only get to London Bridge via the Reading to Waterloo line. Although it is a slower service, it offers greater flexibility as to where you can end your journey.

(Plus is considerably cheaper than RDG to PAD on an evening and Sundays.)

This page details the London Terminals.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-in-london/

This page details 'London Terminals' on the Elizabeth Line.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/elizabeth-line/your-journey-by-elizabeth-line

Using London Terminals tickets on the Elizabeth line​

The Elizabeth line has two 'London Terminal' stations on its route - London Paddington National Rail station and London Liverpool Street National Rail station.

Tickets for National Rail services to/from London Terminals are not valid on the Elizabeth line between Paddington and Liverpool Street. Customers using these tickets must buy a separate ticket or use pay as you go to travel beyond Paddington (if travelling from the west) or Liverpool Street (if travelling from the east).

 

[Starmill]

But (a) it is specifically stated as being valid to London Bridge, and via Paddington, is, as the shortest route, a Permitted Route from Reading to London Bridge; and (b) many of the other routes, accepted as valid, to London Terminals (not necessarily from Reading) do involve passing through another London Terminal station (noting in particular that three of those listed on the OPs confirmation e-mail can only be reached via another listed London Terminal). Also noting that Paddington Crossrail is a through, not a terminal, station.

There are probably a few people who do go via Tottenham Court Road on London Terminals tickets, exiting at London Blackfriars or London Bridge, whose tickets do actually work there. Of course, they'd be running a big risk doing so, as if tickets were checked on the train between London Paddington and Farringdon or Farringdon and City Thameslink, they could be reported for prosecution, charged a Penalty Fare, or asked to pay for a new ticket.

 

[furlong]

The problem is that email which misrepresents the intended validity of the ticket. It is suggesting you take a particular train to Paddington, then telling you it is also valid to travel further on to London Bridge instead of telling you that second part only applies if you travel on a different route from the one you reserved. Once again, a careless retailer introduces ambiguity that shouldn't be there into the contract.