Reasons for manually operated level crossings?

[TheRightTrack]

I have just been to several manually operated crossings in the east (Dullingham, Whittlesea, Elsenham, Littleport and Stonea) and was really wondering why these have not been replaced, the same question goes to others in the UK too.

I believe Dullingham is due for replacement soon but Elsenham strikes me as a peculiar one due to its location on the West Anglian mainline to London Liverpool Street.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[Gloster]

Money.

Replacement of manually operated level-crossings is expensive. There is only a finite amount of money available on the railway for everything and it is used where it is going to bring the most advantage. It may take many years for the savings gained from replacing the existing situation to outweigh the initial cost. If the equipment is not yet life-expired and there are no other factors (shortage of staff, enforced rebuilding of the environs, etc.) that make it necessary, the money that the railway does have can be spent to better advantage elsewhere.

 

[edwin_m]

If a crossing is a block post on an Absolute Block route then the box has to be staffed anyway (unless it can be closed in certain hours, unlikely these days if it's not happening already). So there is no benefit (and considerable cost) in automating the crossing.

Some crossings are very high risk and this may be a reason to retain staffing. Look at Kiveton Park for instance, where one side is the give way line for a T-junction and just beyond the other is a narrow bridge where approaching vehicles can block others back onto the crossing.

 

[Lucy1501]

Another issue is the sight lines, busyness of the roads, and narrowness of the level crossings. The following come to mind:

• Skelly Cragg - issues with converting to automatic operation as it is on a sharp road corner with the crossing being practically on the junction.
• Kirksanton South - considered for automatic operation several times, issues with it being on a sharp blind corner and on the very busy A5093.
• Limestone Hall - same as above.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Another issue is the sight lines, busyness of the roads, and narrowness of the level crossings. The following come to mind:

• Skelly Cragg - issues with converting to automatic operation as it is on a sharp road corner with the crossing being practically on the junction.
• Kirksanton South - considered for automatic operation several times, issues with it being on a sharp blind corner and on the very busy A5093.
• Limestone Hall - same as above.

Pantyffynon on the Heart of Wales - 8 trains a day !

 

[LowLevel]

Hubberts Bridge is one I'd struggle to see ever being anything other than monitored, right on a road junction attached to the bridge over the 40 foot drain with the main road being notorious for serious accidents.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Another issue is the sight lines, busyness of the roads, and narrowness of the level crossings. The following come to mind:

• Skelly Cragg - issues with converting to automatic operation as it is on a sharp road corner with the crossing being practically on the junction.
• Kirksanton South - considered for automatic operation several times, issues with it being on a sharp blind corner and on the very busy A5093.
• Limestone Hall - same as above.

The sight lines for the crossing at Skelly Cragg aren't good. They had to padlock shut the pedestrian gates to the crossing as the signal gantry blocks the sight lines for folks at ground level of trains approaching from the south. Furthermore one of the large gates lay out of use a few years back for a while awaiting repair due to a collision I think.

 

[John Webb]

Another issue is the sight lines, busyness of the roads, and narrowness of the level crossings. The following come to mind:

• Skelly Cragg - issues with converting to automatic operation as it is on a sharp road corner with the crossing being practically on the junction.
• Kirksanton South - considered for automatic operation several times, issues with it being on a sharp blind corner and on the very busy A5093.
• Limestone Hall - same as above.

I was able to find Kirksanton but not the other two locations. Can you give us a steer as to where they are, please?

 

[Western 52]

Pantyffynon on the Heart of Wales - 8 trains a day !

That one is a remarkable survivor with a crossing operator employed to work the gates as the signalbox is too far away. Must be an easy and popular shift!

 

[trebor79]

That one is a remarkable survivor with a crossing operator employed to work the gates as the signalbox is too far away. Must be an easy and popular shift!

I dunno, it sounds terribly boring.

 

[Pinus contorta]

I was able to find Kirksanton but not the other two locations. Can you give us a steer as to where they are, please?

Skelly cragg is 400 metres south of Foxfield on the river Duddon.

 

[66701GBRF]

I am not sure sight lines for pedestrians or risk of road vehicles blocking the crossing are much of a factor. Pedestrian access is normally closed when the barriers are down and I have seen CCTV level crossings installed where the risk of the crossing being blocked is high. Indeed installing automatic crossings at such locations reduces staff injury risk.

 

[edwin_m]

I am not sure sight lines for pedestrians or risk of road vehicles blocking the crossing are much of a factor. Pedestrian access is normally closed when the barriers are down and I have seen CCTV level crossings installed where the risk of the crossing being blocked is high. Indeed installing automatic crossings at such locations reduces staff injury risk.

Perhaps the need to view the road approaches is more significant? With the Kiveton Park crossing I mentioned above, and others immediately alongside road junctions, a wider view than the crossing itself might help establish whether approaching vehicles are intending to turn onto the crossing or continue ahead. Does any CCTV crossing also display the road approaches?

 

[John Webb]

Skelly cragg is 400 metres south of Foxfield on the river Duddon.

Thanks - OS maps show this as Skellow Crag, which is why I didn't find it - certainly looks an awkward crossing from 'Street view'!

 

[Western 52]

Bishton crossing between Newport and Severn Tunnel Junction still has gates and a crossing box, on a 25kv main line. The crossing is for vehicles too high for the subway under the line. I'm not sure how often the gates are opened.

 

[Deepgreen]

The simple answer is money, combined with risk assessment and strategic plans.

Bishton crossing between Newport and Severn Tunnel Junction still has gates and a crossing box, on a 25kv main line. The crossing is for vehicles too high for the subway under the line. I'm not sure how often the gates are opened.

Is the box permanently manned?

 

[Western 52]

The simple answer is money, combined with risk assessment and strategic plans.


Is the box permanently manned?

I think the crossing has certain hours when it's open, but I'm not sure.

 

[Steve Harris]

The simple answer is money, combined with risk assessment and strategic plans.


Is the box permanently manned?

According to Google Street view there is a sign that states "Railway Crossing Closed 10pm-6am exceptions June July August Sat 10pm - 6am, Sun - Fri 11pm - 6am"

 

[High Dyke]

Does any CCTV crossing also display the road approaches?

Not usually. Most cctv crossings I've supervised only see the main footprint of the crossing. Depending on the camera fitted they may have a slightly wider angle.

 

[MadMac]

Not usually. Most cctv crossings I've supervised only see the main footprint of the crossing. Depending on the camera fitted they may have a slightly wider angle.

“Rules of the Game” used to be that the actual crossing area inside the barriers must take up at least 50% of the displayed picture.

 

[themiller]

Another issue is the sight lines, busyness of the roads, and narrowness of the level crossings. The following come to mind:

• Skelly Cragg - issues with converting to automatic operation as it is on a sharp road corner with the crossing being practically on the junction.
• Kirksanton South - considered for automatic operation several times, issues with it being on a sharp blind corner and on the very busy A5093.
• Limestone Hall - same as above.

Also Silecroft.

I was able to find Kirksanton but not the other two locations. Can you give us a steer as to where they are, please?

Limestone Hall is the next road crossing north just outside Kirksanton

 

[John Webb]

Also Silecroft.


Limestone Hall is the next road crossing north just outside Kirksanton

Thanks. Again Google Maps/Street view shows a similar situation to Kirksanton.

But it surprises me that both these crossings (Limestone Hall and Kirksanton) are still being worked manually and with no warning lights for motorists approaching round the awkward bends. Can't be good for either the motorists or the gate operators safety! I note the crossing at Silecroft nearby, albeit on a minor road, has lifting barriers and lights, but I assume these are worked from the adjacent box?

 

[Pinus contorta]

Thanks. Again Google Maps/Street view shows a similar situation to Kirksanton.

But it surprises me that both these crossings (Limestone Hall and Kirksanton) are still being worked manually and with no warning lights for motorists approaching round the awkward bends. Can't be good for either the motorists or the gate operators safety! I note the crossing at Silecroft nearby, albeit on a minor road, has lifting barriers and lights, but I assume these are worked from the adjacent box?

Its had the speed limit reduced to 30 on the main road approaches in recent years. I think there was an incident on the Limestone crossing one saturday in the summer.

 

[themiller]

Thanks. Again Google Maps/Street view shows a similar situation to Kirksanton.

But it surprises me that both these crossings (Limestone Hall and Kirksanton) are still being worked manually and with no warning lights for motorists approaching round the awkward bends. Can't be good for either the motorists or the gate operators safety! I note the crossing at Silecroft nearby, albeit on a minor road, has lifting barriers and lights, but I assume these are worked from the adjacent box?

Silecroft box operates the gates at the adjacent crossing and the crossover. It also supervises the crossing keepers at Limestone Hall and Kirksanton crossings.
At one time, there was a proposed scheme to bypass the road through Kirksanton in association with a Duddon estuary crossing but this didn’t happen. It would have improved word access to Barrow-in-Furness but put the railway at a huge disadvantage potentially making the Cumbrian coast line financially unviable.

 

[CoachB]

Network rail have wanted to change the hand wheeled manual level crossing at Holywood to an AHBC. However the owner of the land has refused them and apparently no amount of money will make the land owner change their mind.
Because of this they recently had to pay out a 7 figure sum for a new set of gates as the existing ones were falling apart to the point a speed restriction for trains was put in place.

 

[Annetts key]

Another reason why more level crossings are not upgraded to more modern systems is that other signalling projects are higher priority. And there are only so many signalling designers, installers and testers.

For CCTV level crossings, the purpose of the CCTV is so that the crossing keeper or signaller can view the crossing. And hence confirm that the crossing is clear before signals are cleared over the crossing. There should be the appropriate road signs (normally the responsibility of the local authority or highways owner) on the approach. And there should be sufficient sighting for the road traffic signals (wig-wags). Extra road traffic signals (wig-wags) may be provided if It's deemed appropriate. It's up to the road users to act in accordance with the highway code.

 

[edwin_m]

Another reason why more level crossings are not upgraded to more modern systems is that other signalling projects are higher priority. And there are only so many signalling designers, installers and testers.

For CCTV level crossings, the purpose of the CCTV is so that the crossing keeper or signaller can view the crossing. And hence confirm that the crossing is clear before signals are cleared over the crossing. There should be the appropriate road signs (normally the responsibility of the local authority or highways owner) on the approach. And there should be sufficient sighting for the road traffic signals (wig-wags). Extra road traffic signals (wig-wags) may be provided if It's deemed appropriate. It's up to the road users to act in accordance with the highway code.

Yesterday I drove (in a car) over the Kiveton Park crossing I mentioned upthread, approaching from the west so I had to make a right turn off the through road parallel with the railway and immediately onto the north side of the crossing. There is indeed a set of wig-wags face on to anyone making this turn. But obviously an increased risk of someone focusing on waiting for a gap in the traffic to make the right turn and not noticing the crossing sequence has started in the meantime. This could lead to a vehicle becoming trapped as the gates lower, which would be observed if it was a CCTV crossing, but also smashing into the gates after they are down, which possibly wouldn't. I guess the signaller in the adjacent box might delay starting the sequence if someone is waiting to make this turn.

As well as the other risk factors I mentioned, there are also two minor turnings opposite each other immediately to the south, which I've never consciously been aware of despite driving over many times, being focused on getting across the crossing itself and dealing with the narrow bridge just beyond. There's also no give way line for the T-junction either before or after the crossing, but presence of a signaller doesn't really address that issue.

Aerial view on link below.

Kiveton Park railway station - Bing Maps

Kiveton Park S26 6PB·Train station

www.bing.com