Recalling wages from the bank

[anti-pacer]

If an employee has been paid today for a period of 1st-31st October, but has decided she's not coming back (as she's been paid), can a company recall that payment from her bank account?

Your feedback would be most welcome.

Thank you.

 

[sonic2009]

Im not all clued up on employment law but one would assume did the employee give notice? Has the employee worked up until the date she has left?

I would think you can't recall it from the bank but not 100% sure.

 

[maniacmartin]

My brother was paid twice one month when his company accidentally ran the payroll for the whole company twice. The company were not able to claw back the funds, and had to ask employers to pay them back. Some employees did not, and the company had to wait until the month after to deduct this amount from their next paycheque.

I believe that bank transfers (BACS/FPS/Direct Credit) are generally not reversible without the permission of the recipient unless the transaction was fraudulent (possible also if it was an obvious mispayment to the wrong account).

Of course the ex-employee would still owe the company the money, and they could sue for it in court, which would be an almost guaranteed win. Also, she might not be getting a good reference from the previous employer.

 

[CatfordCat]

Subject to the disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer / payroll expert / bank employee...

I don't think so. (I'm assuming we're talking English law here)

It is not legal to withold wages for work already done (i.e. up to whatever the last working date was) if someone leaves without working their proper notice.

I would have thought it would be in order to request the wages for the period not worked back, and pursue this through the court if they don't pay up. I'd say polite-ish letter, firm letter sent recorded, then court.

(I'm not sure whether this sort of thing would be through 'small claims' or whether it's the sort of thing an employment tribunal would cover. I think if a firm fails to pay wages, you go to employment tribunal first. Not sure how it works the other way.)

It would (as far as I'm aware) also be lawful for an employer to seek reimbursement for things like training costs, any tools / equipment an employee fails to return on leaving - as long as this has been put in writing in the contract of employment / any supplement to it.

I am not quite sure where anyone would stand when it came to outstanding holiday pay / holiday pay owed if the employee has already taken some of the leave they would accrue in following months.

I guess this is a risk employers take if they pay much before the end of the month.

I believe there is case law for employers taking an ex employee to court for damages if they fail to work out their notice, but the employer would have to prove specific losses (e.g. loss of business, hiring expensive consultants to do the work) - broadly speaking this is only going to be viable for a fairly high-up employee.

In terms of references, there is an urban myth that it's now illegal to give "a bad reference" - this is cobblers, but someone can take an ex employer to court if a reference is false or malicious. Some employers have decided to avoid any possible risk by giving only references that confirm dates of employment (although such references are not accepted by all potential employers...)

Assuming you're the employer here, are you aware that www.acas.org.uk have a telephone advice line that any employer or employee can ring to chat something through?

 

[richw]

It isn't possible to call back once its landed in the recipients bank account by BACS or TT/Chaps

 

[anti-pacer]

It isn't possible to call back once its landed in the recipients bank account by BACS or TT/Chaps

What about Direct Credit?

 

[richw]

What about Direct Credit?

Not once it has hit the recipients account as cleared funds.

I believe Cheque is the only method recallable by cancelling the cheque which you have up to 6 months to complete.

 

[IanXC]

What about Direct Credit?

Direct Credit is just a bank's customer friendly term, the underlying systems are BACS, CHAPS and Faster Payments - its likely to be the latter in this case.

 

[GB]

It isn't possible to call back once its landed in the recipients bank account by BACS or TT/Chaps

Pretty sure BACS payments can be recalled providing it is within 24hrs.

 

[IanXC]

I believe Cheque is the only method recallable by cancelling the cheque which you have up to 6 months to complete.

Since the "2-4-6" changes in November 2007 that's not the case:

after paying in a cheque, customers can be sure that at the end of six working days, the money is theirs. They are protected from any loss if the cheque subsequently bounces, unless they are a knowing party to a fraud.

From the point of view of someone issuing a cheque, once it has debited the account they cannot stop it because they've decided no longer to make the payment. (Which was always a difficult situation as a cheque is technically an admission of a debt owed, but that's very rarely invocked).

 

[GB]

If an employee has been paid today for a period of 1st-31st October, but has decided she's not coming back (as she's been paid), can a company recall that payment from her bank account?

Your feedback would be most welcome.

Thank you.

If she is paid in arrears like the majority of people, then the money is hers so the company shouldn't claim it back. However she leaves herself wide open to other action if she hasn't given the required notice.

 

[richw]

Pretty sure BACS payments can be recalled providing it is within 24hrs.

Within 24 hours of sending it. It doesn't hit the recipients account until day 3 (72 hours or so after sending), so it hasn't cleared at the time it can be recalled.

 

[anti-pacer]

Within 24 hours of sending it. It doesn't hit the recipients account until day 3 (72 hours or so after sending), so it hasn't cleared at the time it can be recalled.

If it hit the recipients account?

 

[GB]

Within 24 hours of sending it. It doesn't hit the recipients account until day 3 (72 hours or so after sending), so it hasn't cleared at the time it can be recalled.

All I know is that when I got accidentally paid twice a few years ago, the overpaid funds were withdrawn from my account later the same day without any initiation from me.

 

[richw]

If it hit the recipients account?

Not possible once cleared funds in recipients account.

I move all my bill funds to a separate account on pay day, so if a recall was attempted It would fail as the funds wont be available.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

All I know is that when I got accidentally paid twice a few years ago, the overpaid funds were withdrawn from my account later the same day without any initiation from me.

Not possible any longer, this used to be doable, I believe it changed in 2007 possibly later though.
The website Bacs.co.uk says their will be a specific cut off where the recall can be issued. This will be prior to the funds being credited.

 

[GB]

Not possible any longer, this used to be doable, I believe it changed in 2007 possibly later though.
The website Bacs.co.uk says their will be a specific cut off where the recall can be issued. This will be prior to the funds being credited.

Makes sense, it was around 2007/2008

 

[455driver]

So she has received payment to which she is not entitled, yes?

If so then they will request the money back, if she refuses then they will sue her, probably on the grounds that she had not given them notice of the termination of her employment and she was paid in good faith that she would be working up to the paid date.

 

[anti-pacer]

So she has received payment to which she is not entitled, yes?

If so then they will request the money back, if she refuses then they will sue her, probably on the grounds that she had not given them notice of the termination of her employment and she was paid in good faith that she would be working up to the paid date.

Pretty much yeah! hock:

 

[tony_mac]

if she refuses then they will sue her, probably on the grounds that she had not given them notice of the termination of her employment and she was paid in good faith that she would be working up to the paid date.

Most employers will not bother, as the potential legal cost almost certainly isn't worth it for 1 week's pay (possibly minus any holiday pay owed), especially if the employee simply claims to be ill.
However, I assume she won't be asking for a reference from them!

 

[455driver]

Some will and they will also go for costs as they have taken reasonable action to reclaim the money which was paid in good faith.
It will also make for an interesting reference if they will even give one, I have known several smart arses lose their new jobs because their previous employer (who they took the wee wee out of) refused to give a reference at all, or a simple '455driver was employed by us between 04 August 2002 and 09 April 2011' which will tell any prospective employer everything they need to know.

She might win this battle but they will win the war!

This is also why most firms now pay in arrears as there is no chance of this happening.

 

[maniacmartin]

'455driver was employed by us between 04 August 2002 and 09 April 2011

My previous employers insist that the legal department is the only part for the company authorised to give references, and all their references read just like this. It's a classic case of covering your back. My ex-boss had to give me a "personal reference" from his personal email address to get around that.

 

[455driver]

My previous employers insist that the legal department is the only part for the company authorised to give references, and all their references read just like this. It's a classic case of covering your back. My ex-boss had to give me a "personal reference" from his personal email address to get around that.

Which one carries the most weight?

Most new employers will insist on a "personal reference" rather than a "corparate" one as it gives them a much better idea of the applicants work ethics and I have never known a Manager to give one for a good employee, although they have refused for a complete A-hole.

 

[michael769]

A lot of employers don't pay much attention to references. And a surprising number do not take them up. Their view is that an employee only offers up referees they know will be positive, and asking is simply a way to deter a candidate from lying.

I have remained friends with a couple of past managers who would have told me if they had been contacted. Out of my last 4 employers only 1 did.

 

[maniacmartin]

Then there's employers who want to see your original GCSE certificates after you've completed a degree and gained 4 years industry experience :/

 

[SWT_USER]

Then there's employers who want to see your original GCSE certificates after you've completed a degree and gained 4 years industry experience :/

I've never been asked to prove/ back up anything I've put on my CV, very surprised you were asked for GCSE certificates, I'd probably have to search my parents loft for mine!

 

[D365]

I've never been asked to prove/ back up anything I've put on my CV, very surprised you were asked for GCSE certificates, I'd probably have to search my parents loft for mine!

Better make sure I preserve the important stuff then, just in case

Btw, one had also better make sure we don't confuse you with swt_passenger!