Receiving a Caution

[jooooooohn]

Hi,

need advice on this matter

I was on a journey from Luton to london as part of my normal work journey.

I bought a short journey and have been doing so since november.

I got stopped and fined before and assume my details were saved on the system

this morning i got stopped on my way to london while having a short ticket.
The staff member saw my ticket checked i had been warned before and told me i had been cautioned

she asked me questions such as did i knowingly not travel with a valid ticket etc

she did not fine me on the spot but said i will receive a letter soon

What do i do??

oh, she also took a picture of my tickets from november showing my short journeys

it was Thameslink trains

 

[Brissle Girl]

So can I clarify, you had previously been caught short-faring and “fined” (can you explain exactly what that was, process etc), and you have continued to do so, and have now been caught again?

 

[jooooooohn]

So can I clarify, you had previously been caught short-faring and “fined” (can you explain exactly what that was, process etc), and you have continued to do so, and have now been caught again?

i got stopped at my destination station (luton) and they had seen i only came from harpenden rather than st pancras. They took my details down and i paid a 120 pound fine.

Since then i havent been caught but have been short faring since then

 

[Titfield]

i got stopped at my destination station (luton) and they had seen i only came from harpenden rather than st pancras. They took my details down and i paid a 120 pound fine.

Since then i havent been caught but have been short faring since then

This doesnt really help unfortunately. A fine can only be imposed by a court. Were you taken to court and fined or do you mean you were charged a penalty fare?

Can you upload any documents you have with all identifying details (name address case reference number) obscured?

 

[Brissle Girl]

Was that £120 a penalty fare, or an out of court settlement.

 

[jooooooohn]

This doesnt really help unfortunately. A fine can only be imposed by a court. Were you taken to court and fined or do you mean you were charged a penalty fare?

Can you upload any documents you have with all identifying details (name address case reference number) obscured?

it was just a penalty fare i had to pay when i went home.
i went to this website i have forgotten the URL and paid it online

Was that £120 a penalty fare, or an out of court settlement.

penalty fare

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@jooooooohn. Welcome to the forum. Reckon that you can quite possibly expect to be taken to court where, from what you've told us, i.e. that you're a serial repeat offender, there's every chance you'll be found guilty and end up with a court conviction and a fine added on top.

If, somehow, you are able to negotiate a so-called "out of court settlement", and this is by no means guaranteed, you can expect to pay £21.20 (the undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare) for each and every occasion that the train company's investigation team reckon you've not paid the correct fare (1 return journey = 2 singles) plus a three figure sum towards their admin and investigation costs added on top. Easy enough for them to check how many times you've been short-faring if you've bought your tickets online.

Good luck! This could prove to be quite expensive.

 

[Brissle Girl]

I’d agree that it’s going to be quite difficult to avoid a prosecution here, given youve been caught once, and Thameslink will no doubt investigate your Trainline (or other) online account, to determine the history of short faring.

Hopefully you don’t work in a job where financial probity and integrity is required (law, finance, healthcare), as you will be required to disclose any conviction to your employer or professional body.

 

[jooooooohn]

ah that is quite unfortunate to hear.
I really do not care about the fine i just do not want a prosecution as i would lose my job most likely.

how long does the letter take to usually arrive?

 

[swt_passenger]

i got stopped at my destination station (luton) and they had seen i only came from harpenden rather than st pancras.

That explanation of the earlier penalty fare seems odd. It seems to me more likely you actually travelled from St Pancras to Luton with a ticket only from Harpenden to Luton.

How do you get in or out of the station at the London end of your normal journey, by the way?

 

[jooooooohn]

That explanation of the earlier penalty fare seems odd. It seems to me more likely you actually travelled from St Pancras to Luton with a ticket only from Harpenden to Luton.

How do you get in or out of the station at the London end of your normal journey, by the way?

i have a oyster (staff nominee) which allows me to tap in at st pancras

 

[WesternLancer]

ah that is quite unfortunate to hear.
I really do not care about the fine i just do not want a prosecution as i would lose my job most likely.

how long does the letter take to usually arrive?

so basically they probably checked, could see you have had a Penalty Fare before - but have not 'learned your lesson' so they have probably decided to take it to the next level - which is potential prosecution. But you may be able to seek an out of court settlement if you can convince them you really have learned your lesson and will stop doing this.

But you would be very unlikely to go to prison if you went to court - other threads can give an idea of the formula on which the court would set a fine and costs etc.

Letter could take a few weeks (maybe 4 to 6 or longer) - you need to watch out for it, and make sure you reply, or it will definitely escalate to court prosecution.

i have a oyster (staff nominee) which allows me to tap in at st pancras

whooaaa....
so you have a special pass issued to member of staff's family and you are fare dodging? If I have this correct this could get very serious very quickly including for your member of family who is employed and puts their job at risk I would think.

 

[jooooooohn]

so basically they probably checked, could see you have had a Penalty Fare before - but have not 'learned your lesson' so they have probably decided to take it to the next level - which is potential prosecution. But you may be able to seek an out of court settlement if you can convince them you really have learned your lesson and will stop doing this.

But you would be very unlikely to go to prison if you went to court - other threads can give an idea of the formula on which the court would set a fine and costs etc.

Letter could take a few weeks (maybe 4 to 6 or longer) - you need to watch out for it, and make sure you reply, or it will definitely escalate to court prosecution.


whooaaa....
so you have a special pass issued to member of staff's family and you are fare dodging? If I have this correct this could get very serious very quickly including for your member of family who is employed and puts their job at risk I would think.

yep thats what im worried about

 

[skyhigh]

i have a oyster (staff nominee) which allows me to tap in at st pancras

Big, big, big red flag there if they manage to link that up with your short faring. Whoever the staff member is could end up in serious trouble. You should tell them what you've been doing in case their employer calls them in.

I really do not care about the fine i just do not want a prosecution as i would lose my job most likely.

To be blunt - you had your warning. You got caught and then carried on, this shows you didn't learn your lesson. Look at it from their position - why should they essentially give you another warning (by letting you repay the outstanding fares) when you didn't learn the first time?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

At what stage might the OP perhaps be best advised to consider seeking out specialist legal representation?

 

[jooooooohn]

couldnt i pin the entire responsibility on me and not get the staff member of tfl in trouble?
as i am an adult and can make my own decisions etc

 

[Titfield]

At what stage might the OP perhaps be best advised to consider seeking out specialist legal representation?

I think the OP needs to await the letter as that will outline the "issues" the TOC has. They may be fortunate in that there is no linking to the previous offence but I think that is very unlikely. Once the issues are known a decision can be taken on whether specialist representation is needed.

couldnt i pin the entire responsibility on me and not get the staff member of tfl in trouble?
as i am an adult and can make my own decisions etc

TOCS do not see it that way. Their view is that priv or free travel is a highly valuable benefit and that staff members have some responsibility in ensuring that partners etc do not abuse it. The staff member may not be held responsible directly but to some extent their "card is marked" as regards future behaviour. This may seem very unfair but it is the way that it is treated.

 

[jooooooohn]

okay well thanks for the help guys
ill make an update when i eventually receive it

 

[WesternLancer]

okay well thanks for the help guys
ill make an update when i eventually receive it

If your user name is anything like part of your real name (or part of it) I think I'd change it - under no circs do you want anything that could trace you to this thread given your relationship with a staff pass holder.

You may need to ask the mods to do this.

 

[jooooooohn]

If your user name is anything like part of your real name (or part of it) I think I'd change it - under no circs do you want anything that could trace you to this thread given your relationship with a staff pass holder.

You may need to ask the mods to do this.

no worries there

 

[WesternLancer]

no worries there

OK - anyway - good luck with this.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

As others have said as a staff niminee pass is involved this has teh potential to be very serious.

I suggest you tell the person who works for TfL as they are responsible for making sure that nominee passes are used correctly. Misuse of a pass could see that person facing disciplinary action up to and including dismissal.

 

[jooooooohn]

i just want to update it has been 8 weeks and nothing has arrived.

 

[Bungle158]

Thanks for the update. Of course you are aware that GTR have several more months in which to proceed and that a 'delay' may be the result of time needed to obtain and analyse your travel and ticket purchase history.

 

[Camsus]

i just want to update it has been 8 weeks and nothing has arrived.

From other posts on here, it seems GTR generally take at least 2-3 months to make contact. I suspect you won't have to wait much longer