Record-breaking 100+ hour delay? "You can travel on the Avanti service immediately after this train" ... in 5 days

[30907]

I don't believe any Drivers work the entire way from Euston to Glasgow, a changeover at Preston is likely.

Yes

Some years ago now I was nightshift on, IIRC Christmas Eve, with a major possession for bridge replacement somewhere between Gretna Jc and Carstairs, booked on as soon as the last train had passed, for the next 2 or 3 days. A storm then damaged the roof at Preston station, causing heavy delays, however the engineers insisted that the job start on time, otherwise it would overrun, and the last train could not therefore get beyond Carlisle. Virgin were unable to source any road transport, or hotels, for their passengers so with the support of the National Operations Control in London, the possession was indeed held off and the (very busy) train got through. We did all we could to assist the engineers by diesel-hauling the train from Carlisle, so that preliminary work such as isolating and removing the overheads could start on time. And, in the end, the job finished on time!

Impressive. I presume, though, that the signallers weren't on strike and were content to work any overtime involved?

What do they normally do with them, given that they regularly terminate the Glasgow trains there?

Longsight ECS I think

I am just conveying this story to my girlfriend and she is getting a bit upset . Both at home btw .
Thus so far:
They made it out of london
Got past crew
Some made it to runcorn

Where is this from?

 

[Mike99]

I'm wondering how the driver and the rest of the on train-crew got back up north?

 

[Taunton]

Is sticking to the letter of the strike more important than getting the passengers home for Christmas?

 

[dk1]

Had a quick scan on Twitter and cannot find any complaints from passengers about the last train being cancelled to GLC. Maybe my keywords need amending… I’d expect this to have blown up

Yes I noticed that. Doubt it was that busy then & those affected where provided with onward transport. Nothing to see here.

 

[Darandio]

Is sticking to the letter of the strike more important than getting the passengers home for Christmas?

Umm yeah, otherwise what's the point?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Well, what are they going to do with it at Euston?

Balance it by keeping one at Glasgow

 

[HSTEd]

Is sticking to the letter of the strike more important than getting the passengers home for Christmas?

The whole point of the strike is to cause this disruption.

 

[Gloster]

As a 1980s signalman active (at a low level) in the NUR, I would have stayed on after the time a strike was due to start to deal with a train that was due to pass before the start of the strike but was delayed. I think most staff would have acted the same. We would expect the management not to pull a fast one, not that I can ever remember them doing so, but we wouldn’t have left the passenger dumped if there was a bit of bad luck. It seems that staff-management relations and goodwill, and management competence have declined to an appalling level.

 

[Starmill]

Is sticking to the letter of the strike more important than getting the passengers home for Christmas?

I don't think anyone is interested in keeping "to the letter of the strike". Network Rail have the right to ask Avanti to withdraw if they are proposing to do something, such as a substantially late start, which will result in more than a few minutes of delay to their possession.

It doesn't really have anything to do with the strike. The last train would have been passing just ahead of the block regardless.

 

[gazzaa2]

Yes I noticed that. Doubt it was that busy then & those affected where provided with onward transport. Nothing to see here.

I'd guess any regular users of that service - or anyone who knows of its unreliability - wouldn't have travelled today to Glasgow unless absolutely necessary (i.e. couldn't travel earlier) and most of those wouldn't have chanced the last train. Those for earlier stops had the chance to change at Crewe or Stafford via other services.

I'd guess trains were quiet today in general barring short commutes or shopping trips.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Yes I noticed that. Doubt it was that busy then & those affected where provided with onward transport. Nothing to see here.

To be more precise, from the few passenger complaints I noticed to Avanti’s Twitter account, it appears there were rail replacement coaches laid on from Crewe to Glasgow.

 

[philthetube]

Yes

Impressive. I presume, though, that the signallers weren't on strike and were content to work any overtime involved?

If people assumed that I would work overtime then there would be no chance, I would not be prepared to be taken for granted.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I don't believe any Drivers work the entire way from Euston to Glasgow, a changeover at Preston is likely.

Preston drivers sign the whole route but rarely do it all in one go.

 

[Peter0124]

The speed record attempt last year was driven throughout by a Preston driver IIRC

 

[45107]

Driver arrived late off previous service, required by law to take their break, too late to run the service once they had finished their break, discussions where held as to running the service with a late start late but with early shut down today it wasn't possible.

Out of interest, which LAW is this that requires to take a Driver to have a PNB ?
To my knowledge RSSB standards / RAIB recommendations are not incorporated into law but I may be wrong.

 

[SJ21]

Shocking, never used them myself but think of all the families who will now not be able to meet over Christmas. First group needs shove to take a serious look at this, Avanti, Transpennine and South Western are all absolutely embarrassing. Complete mis-management. Shame on them

 

[irish_rail]

It beggars belief that Avanti don't take on qualified drivers more often. Not sure any have been taken on in past year or so, they seem to prefer to tinker about with trainees and apprentices. A qualified driver with traction or route knowledge could be up and productive in a couple of months, but instead they seem to prefer trainees who will take 16 months or so to become productive and even then only on initial minimal routes and traction etc.
GWR heavily recruited qualified drivers over past 5 years and as a result is not in such dire straits as Avanti. In fact for years GWR was recruiting qualified at almost all depots. When was the last time Avanti had an Ad for qualified drivers at Liverpool, Preston, Glasgow etc? Not often.

 

[Russel]

I believe there was a driver for this but required his break before being able to drive this and because of that additional time the service would not reach glasgow before the industrial action kicked in

So actually, the RMT need to take some responsibility here too, not just Avanti.

 

[Darandio]

Shocking, never used them myself but think of all the families who will now not be able to meet over Christmas.

Have I missed the bit about everyone getting stranded away from family and friends? By all accounts they are being transported, just by road.

 

[SJ21]

Have I missed the bit about everyone getting stranded away from family and friends? By all accounts they are being transported, just by road.

If i have missed that bit within the last 4 pages I do apologise, but why advertise a train you cannot run? It's an absolute embarrassment, especially when we want people to travel by train. All the work Virgin put in to the franchise is just being slowly wiped away ,with First group becoming a massive joke.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If i have missed that bit within the last 4 pages I do apologise, but why advertise a train you cannot run? It's an absolute embarrassment, especially when we want people to travel by train. All the work Virgin put in to the franchise is just being slowly wiped away ,with First group becoming a massive joke.

It does seem to me that with this train it'd have made sense to put it in as an unadvertised relief but for the one before it to be the last advertised and sold service, thus gaining a bit of slack and not being stuck if it did end up cancelled through delay.

 

[Pacef8]

I think they will arrive sometime tomorrow .

 

[SJ21]

It does seem to me that with this train it'd have made sense to put it in as an unadvertised relief but for the one before it to be the last advertised and sold service, thus gaining a bit of slack and not being stuck if it did end up cancelled through delay.

Exactly. The public will only give so much slack, and as seen by recent articles and threads within this forum, the public and enthusiasts are not happy with Avanti, and with Transpennine. SWR leaves a lot to be desired as well, with services ruined since the SWT days. Massive shame, am worried that the franchises that get most often complained about are operated by First Group, which indicates proper mismanagement. Tories take note!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think they will arrive sometime tomorrow .

If they took the 1230ish Liverpool and changed to a bus at Crewe they should easily be there by now, or if not now then within an hour or two.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes I noticed that. Doubt it was that busy then & those affected where provided with onward transport. Nothing to see here.

From my view yesterday, it seemed that most people listened to the travel advice and chose to travel yesterday (A fairly normal Friday) instead. Couldn't believe my eyes when my 10 444 rolled up yesterday afternoon and took the best part of 4 minutes to unload and load again!

 

[Bletchleyite]

From my view yesterday, it seemed that most people listened to the travel advice and chose to travel yesterday (A fairly normal Friday) instead.

Many will have anyway. We're lucky Christmas Eve this year was a Saturday, meaning a lot more slack than the usual after-work rush.

 

[guard1]

It beggars belief that Avanti don't take on qualified drivers more often. Not sure any have been taken on in past year or so, they seem to prefer to tinker about with trainees and apprentices. A qualified driver with traction or route knowledge could be up and productive in a couple of months, but instead they seem to prefer trainees who will take 16 months or so to become productive and even then only on initial minimal routes and traction etc.
GWR heavily recruited qualified drivers over past 5 years and as a result is not in such dire straits as Avanti. In fact for years GWR was recruiting qualified at almost all depots. When was the last time Avanti had an Ad for qualified drivers at Liverpool, Preston, Glasgow etc? Not often.

I applied in January as a qualified driver. Got an automated reply immediately and then nothing until a fortnight ago with an update. No chance I'm making the switch in the current climate though.

 

[DarloRich]

Exactly. The public will only give so much slack, and as seen by recent articles and threads within this forum, the public and enthusiasts are not happy with Avanti, and with Transpennine. SWR leaves a lot to be desired as well, with services ruined since the SWT days. Massive shame, am worried that the franchises that get most often complained about are operated by First Group, which indicates proper mismanagement. Tories take note!

The tories dont care! They are the ones causing the problems and they are only going to get worse as they try to burn down as much as they can before being booted out

 

[contrex]

It's a good point. I've travelled thousands of miles on GWR and Greater Anglia since 2020. I don't think a single train that I have intended to travel on has been cancelled owing to lack of train crew.

Same here on GWR

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I don't think anyone is interested in keeping "to the letter of the strike". Network Rail have the right to ask Avanti to withdraw if they are proposing to do something, such as a substantially late start, which will result in more than a few minutes of delay to their possession.

I ran loads of major xmas possessions and between us and operators we had contingency plans to allow upto several hours delay to a possessions and a plan to deal with overruns. This though is more than likely going to be a lack of signallers/ecro staff due to the RMT action although i suspect.

The really sad thing about this is this is not the railway way and staff won't take any delight in this outcome. For good or bad this industry runs on the "goodwill" of staff and they are really willing to do right by passengers. Yes staff get well remunerated for doing extra hours in these situations but what really concerns me is whether the senior leaders of our industry are banging the table with DfT/Harper and really articulating how much staff across the all corners of the industry go out there way to keep the trains running. Prolonging this dispute is costing everybody but if it smothers goodwill it will cost the industry a lot more in the long run.