Refused trainspotting at London Victoria!!!!

[Joe - 117]

Today I’ve visited London Victoria station for a day of trainspotting/ filming. Upon my arrival I done what Network Rail has advised enthusiast to do, when arriving to their managed stations before stepping onto Platform to film. I reported myself to reception desk, and there was a young lady working there. And this is my words to her: Hello I would like to do trainspotting at this station, and I would like to do some filming, there will be no flashes involved, is this okay for me to do this. And this her response to me. I’m sorry what is trainspotting??? And I thought to myself? What??? Are you been serious???? Are you having a laugh????
I showed her Network Rail guidelines to her on my phone, and then she says what do you want from us?
And I said I just want to sign in and get permission to trainspot and film, and then she replied said no sorry haven’t got authorisation, and then got turned away.
She obviously was new or a temp, but she should of got training when coming to encounter with rail enthusiast.
That has left me discouraged, as I wasted my money, time, journey to get there.
London Victoria is a good commute station, but not a good place for enthusiast, very unhelpful, unwelcoming, not a nice atmosphere to be in. As anyone have this problem? If so is there anyway I can make a complaint as that isn’t on, and it’s unacceptable to give enthusiast this kind of treatment.
Also I find this Network Rail Guidelines quite misleading when it says they welcome enthusiast at their stations.
Network Rail really does needs to sort out their reception desk staff, they really do.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Best regards.
Joe

 

[Bertie the bus]

And I said I just want to sign in like I normally do, and she said no sorry and got turned away.

Can you expand on this a bit? When she said no and you got turned away do you mean she asked you to leave the station or did she just have no idea what signing in was as she didn't even know what train spotting was?

If she just said you couldn't sign in then you could have just gone about your business.

 

[Joe - 117]

Can you expand on this a bit? When she said no and you got turned away do you mean she asked you to leave the station or did she just have no idea what signing in was as she didn't even know what train spotting was?

If she just said you couldn't sign in then you could have just gone about your business.

She didn’t had no idea what trainspotting was, those were her exact words to me. I showed her the Network Rail Guidelines website, but she just said what do you want from us? And I just said I would like to sign in like I normally would just to get permission so I can go onto Platform to film trains. Then she said no sorry, got turned away.

 

[Bertie the bus]

You have just repeated yourself word for word when I asked you to expand on what being turned away actually entailed. Did she say you couldn't spot and you had to leave the station or did she just say you couldn't sign in because she had no idea what you were talking about?

 

[AlterEgo]

You can contact Network Rail to lodge a complaint here: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/contact-us/

You should ask them to make sure staff are aware of their own visitors procedure for enthusiasts.

 

[jamieP]

You could have still done your filming etc. She did not turn you away from the station. Signing in is only a guidline not a hard rule. Tbh I can understand why some stations would rather you did not sign in as if there is a evacuation they are then responisble for you. I also wounder how many people sign in and then dont sign out causing more hassle than good.

 

[dakta]

Might have to accept not everyone knows what trainspotting is - it might seem an obvious setting but I wouldn't get too concerned on that detail.

Was there anyone else you could speak to or have spoken to who may have been able to help or point you to someone better placed to help?

I'm not into spotting but did a bit of research into photography at railway stations as theres some clips I want to get for a side project which touches on a commuting theme, my research indicated it can be problematic at the times where even with nr guidelines it can be a bit hairy - that said they seem to encourage it, she probably didn't let you sign in because it was not something she had heard of so therefore how could she do it - in this case finding someone else who might have dealt with a photographer even if not on the desk might have been a help

 

[Joe - 117]

To gain permission from Network Rail to film, is you have to sign in. For example like Waterloo & Clapham Junction. When I ask permission to trainspot, I always inform whoever is working on the desk, to let them know who I am and what I’m doing. And they like yeah that’s fine go ahead, long as you stand behind yellow line and no flashes then that’s no problem. Here you go sign here, boom I’m in. Problem is I can’t just go and film as there is most possibility you will be escorted off by security, as London terminals do have rail security!

You have just repeated yourself word for word when I asked you to expand on what being turned away actually entailed. Did she say you couldn't spot and you had to leave the station or did she just say you couldn't sign in because she had no idea what you were talking about?

My apologies, she says she couldn’t give me permission, she has no authorisation or something. But I still got turned away though.

Might have to accept not everyone knows what trainspotting is - it might seem an obvious setting but I wouldn't get too concerned on that detail.

Was there anyone else you could speak to or have spoken to who may have been able to help or point you to someone better placed to help?

I'm not into spotting but did a bit of research into photography at railway stations as theres some clips I want to get for a side project which touches on a commuting theme, my research indicated it can be problematic at the times where even with nr guidelines it can be a bit hairy - that said they seem to encourage it, she probably didn't let you sign in because it was not something she had heard of so therefore how could she do it - in this case finding someone else who might have dealt with a photographer even if not on the desk might have been a he

She was the only person in the Reception Desk!!!! Fair enough if she didn’t know what trainspotting was, it’s just I find it bizarre as I been to like Waterloo & Clapham Junction knew what trainspotting was etc. But she didn’t even called someone above her, which she should of done.

 

[DanNCL]

Members of the general public I could understand not knowing what trainspotting is, although most do. Railway staff I would expect to know what it is, if anything it should have been mentioned in their training what the policies are towards trainspotting.

I would definitely advise making a complaint as procedure wasn’t followed here. If she wasn’t certain what to do she should have consulted a colleague rather than turning you away.

I have generally found (with a couple of exceptions) station staff at London Terminals to be considerably less professional than their colleagues at most stations elsewhere in the UK.

Although it is advised you sign in, it’s rare you’ll actually have problems if you don’t sign in on the national network, even security generally don’t seem to mind if it’s clear what you’re doing. The only place I can think of where filming is actually an issue in the UK is the Tyne & Wear Metro but even they’re becoming more relaxed about it these days.

 

[Joe - 117]

Members of the general public I could understand not knowing what trainspotting is, although most do. Railway staff I would expect to know what it is, if anything it should have been mentioned in their training what the policies are towards trainspotting.

I would definitely advise making a complaint as procedure wasn’t followed here. If she wasn’t certain what to do she should have consulted a colleague rather than turning you away.

I have generally found (with a couple of exceptions) station staff at London Terminals to be considerably less professional than their colleagues at most stations elsewhere in the UK.

Although it is advised you sign in, it’s rare you’ll actually have problems if you don’t sign in on the national network, even security generally don’t seem to mind if it’s clear what you’re doing. The only place I can think of where filming is actually an issue in the UK is the Tyne & Wear Metro but even they’re becoming more relaxed about it these days.

I’ve just made compliant to Network Rail. The issue is I’ve wasted my money, time, journey been there. Came there to trainspot, not to get turned away. What she should of got someone else, like her colleague who is more experienced dealing with someone regarding photography, but she didn’t. I’ve been to 2 London stations so far, Clapham Junction and London Waterloo. They were fantastic, they let me sign in no problem as long as I follow the guidelines, like standing behind the yellow line and no camera flashes.
But problem is I can’t just go onto Platform and film, as I would most likely will get asked to leave by security as London Terminals are full of them.

 

[BluePenguin]

I am sorry if I am missing something or being ignorant here but you have not wasted your time and money doing anything other than walking away because a member of staff didn’t know what your hobby was and didn’t have you sign in?

The station is very laid-back in general and is very welcoming to enthusiasts. You were not threatened with BTP or asked to leave, but did so as you were happy with the way the lady replied?

I have travelled through and taken plenty of photos and videos at London Victoria over the years I never had an issue with anyone. Never asked to sign in and nobody has come and approached me either. Next time simply turn up and do you what you want to do. If anyone has a problem they will come to you, don’t announce and broadcast your presence unnecessarily. Victoria is not the same as Euston

 

[Joe - 117]

I am sorry if I am missing something or being ignorant here but you have not wasted your time and money doing anything other than walking away because a member of staff didn’t know what your hobby was and didn’t have you sign in?

I have travelled through and taken plenty of photos and videos at London Victoria over the years I never had an issue with anyone. Never asked to sign in and nobody has come and approached me either. Next time simply turn up and do you what you want to do. If anyone has a problem they will come to you, don’t announce and broadcast your presence unnecessarily. Victoria is not the same as Euston

That’s fair enough, I never went to Victoria in terms of trainspot so it’s my first time. I was only doing just doing what Network Rail simply asked enthusiast to do when coming to their managed stations, which was on their guidelines. Clapham & Waterloo I definitely needed to sign in. At Waterloo I got approached 2 or 3 times by station assistant & security, and had to keep showing my pass to them. So I thought Victoria was the same. So I was just having common sense to ask first before doing anything, rather then going to Platform and risking getting told off and get asked to leave by security!

 

[greyman42]

Did the lady you spoke to have reasonably good English, as in would you say it was her first language?

 

[Joe - 117]

She did spoke good English, she just didn’t had a clue why I was there for. Probably was new, and clearly hasn’t got any experience with rail enthusiast!

 

[bramling]

Members of the general public I could understand not knowing what trainspotting is, although most do. Railway staff I would expect to know what it is, if anything it should have been mentioned in their training what the policies are towards trainspotting.

I would definitely advise making a complaint as procedure wasn’t followed here. If she wasn’t certain what to do she should have consulted a colleague rather than turning you away.

I have generally found (with a couple of exceptions) station staff at London Terminals to be considerably less professional than their colleagues at most stations elsewhere in the UK.

Although it is advised you sign in, it’s rare you’ll actually have problems if you don’t sign in on the national network, even security generally don’t seem to mind if it’s clear what you’re doing. The only place I can think of where filming is actually an issue in the UK is the Tyne & Wear Metro but even they’re becoming more relaxed about it these days.

Doesn’t seem to be any issues on T&W Metro these days. This year and last year I’ve had a week taking quite a few photos on there, and no one seems to have batted an eyelid. That said, the staff presence is sufficiently minimal that you’re barely likely to encounter any.

Last year I spent two hours during one of the football matches doing a pretty detailed photographic survey of the main central area underground stations, which (with the stations pretty much empty whilst everyone was watching the football) would have been pretty obvious to anyone watching CCTV, and again no issues at all. Of course, any staff may have been occupied with other matters!

 

[dakta]

She was the only person in the Reception Desk!!!! Fair enough if she didn’t know what trainspotting was, it’s just I find it bizarre as I been to like Waterloo & Clapham Junction knew what trainspotting was etc. But she didn’t even called someone above her, which she should of done.

It is bizarre, but not impossible. If it's genuinely the case that she hadn't heard of it (and she could be a temp, relieving someone or new to the role) then to be fair she'd be sensible to not commit to authorising any such activity.

If she was on her own and manning a desk maybe fetching someone wasn't something she could do either, it is poor service given it seems from other posts you should be able to cruise in without drama but it was an unclear situation for both of you (she didn't know and you I don't think had done this station befire) , I think it would have made sense given you have experience of the NR guidelines, if for your own sake more than anything to see if you could find anyone else in the station area to speak to about it - a hassle but less than returning empty handed

End of the day sounds like she didn't say no, sounds like she said she didn't know so couldn't say yes - if someone milling around had said we see this quite regular, no need to sign in or something to that effect you could have cobbled something together.

Given even photographers seem to get a raised eyebrow from different staff even with permission it's never a risk free enterprise anyway but could have done that in the name of coming away with a photo or two.

 

[Joe - 117]

It is bizarre, but not impossible. If it's genuinely the case that she hadn't heard of it (and she could be a temp, relieving someone or new to the role) then to be fair she'd be sensible to not commit to authorising any such activity.

If she was on her own and manning a desk maybe fetching someone wasn't something she could do either, it is poor service given it seems from other posts you should be able to cruise in without drama but it was an unclear situation for both of you (she didn't know and you I don't think had done this station befire) , I think it would have made sense given you have experience of the NR guidelines, if for your own sake more than anything to see if you could find anyone else in the station area to speak to about it - a hassle but less than returning empty handed

End of the day sounds like she didn't say no, sounds like she said she didn't know so couldn't say yes - if someone milling around had said we see this quite regular, no need to sign in or something to that effect you could have cobbled something together.

Given even photographers seem to get a raised eyebrow from different staff even with permission it's never a risk free enterprise anyway but could have done that in the name of coming away with a photo or two.

Yeah that’s what I thought to myself really, but however still the fault is to the person whoever is in charge. It’s his or her responsibility to make sure that she had training in cases when she comes encounter with rail enthusiast! Even if she was working by herself, or she should rang that person out to assist, it’s all down to common sense. Hopefully Network Rail would see my compliment and deal with this, and tell their staff to work better in future on dealing with anybody regarding photography. I decided I go to Victoria 1 more time in few weeks, hopefully will get better luck next time.

 

[Kite159]

Doesn’t seem to be any issues on T&W Metro these days. This year and last year I’ve had a week taking quite a few photos on there, and no one seems to have batted an eyelid. That said, the staff presence is sufficiently minimal that you’re barely likely to encounter any.

Last year I spent two hours during one of the football matches doing a pretty detailed photographic survey of the main central area underground stations, which (with the stations pretty much empty whilst everyone was watching the football) would have been pretty obvious to anyone watching CCTV, and again no issues at all. Of course, any staff may have been occupied with other matters!

I believe in the olden days on the Tyne & Wear Metro if you were at a station taking photos/videos you would get told off via the PA system something like "Would the person in the Green* Top cease with your actions as they are breaching the bylaws, if you continue we will instruct the BTP to visit"

(*Or whatever coloured top someone was wearing)

Although I would imagine with staff cutbacks, the CCTV cameras are not always being monitored unless there is a reported issue.

----

As for London Victoria, there are some staff who get a bit jumpy whenever a charter is due in, at least on the South Eastern site.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I believe in the olden days on the Tyne & Wear Metro if you were at a station taking photos/videos you would get told off via the PA system something like "Would the person in the Green* Top cease with your actions as they are breaching the bylaws, if you continue we will instruct the BTP to visit"

(*Or whatever coloured top someone was wearing)

Very very sad that staff decide to act this way, and let's face it - with no good reason other than boredom or a power trip, usually.

 

[Kite159]

Very very sad that staff decide to act this way, and let's face it - with no good reason other than boredom or a power trip, usually.

I think someone on this forum once got given a PA announcement at I think Haymarket to "Would the passenger in the Red Top either board the next train or leave the station" as they were hanging around on the lookout for any required Metrocars.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think someone on this forum once got given a PA announcement at I think Haymarket to "Would the passenger in the Red Top either board the next train or leave the station" as they were hanging around on the lookout for any required Metrocars.

Absolutely ridiculous, and let’s hope they complained accordingly.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Until this thread appeared I didn't know signing in was still a thing. The Network Rail guidelines are about 15 years old and came about because there was a period when a lot of photographers were getting hassled at stations by staff and security. That doesn't seem to happen much at all these days so I doubt many even think about signing in, so I'm not surprised some receptionist hadn't ever heard of it.

 

[richw]

@Joe - 117 i suggest you may have taken her too literal in that she wouldn’t sign you in.
This isn’t a compulsary requirement and you can still go spotting.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I rarely sign in. Only at Euston have I been approached and told to - which I duly do.

I think the main purpose is to avoid staff wasting time worrying about someone loitering at the end of a platform possibly looking like a potential suicide. On a few occasions I have seen staff approaching from a distance, I have waved my notebook so they can see it and they have promptly turned round and gone back to whatever they normally do. My attitude is I want to avoid railway staff wasting their time and make their life easier. I suspect that is the main purpose of signing in.

In the case of Victoria I suspect the young lady was a new recruit and your request put her out of her depth. Don't let it get you down it is something we all encounter from time to time in life.

 

[Joe - 117]

Until this thread appeared I didn't know signing in was still a thing. The Network Rail guidelines are about 15 years old and came about because there was a period when a lot of photographers were getting hassled at stations by staff and security. That doesn't seem to happen much at all these days so I doubt many even think about signing in, so I'm not surprised some receptionist hadn't ever heard of it.

You be surprised… I was at Guildford station few months back trainspotting, and I got approached a lot by 2 security, 2 station assistance & BTP. Asking what am I doing, and have I asked permission etc, even though I already have permission which was annoying. Clapham Junction & Waterloo are the same, been approached by station assistant and 1 or 2 security at Waterloo has to keep showing them my pass. That’s why Network Rail advise enthusiast to sign in, so that rail staff will know who you are, and know you not doing anything dodgy, like filming passengers as that is going against Data Protection Act, or anything that is a security risk.
Once I was at Clapham Junction few years ago filming and not asked permission, got approached by security asked what I was doing. And replied doing trainspotting, then he said no you did not asked asked permission and then got asked to leave. That’s why I always ask staff first, as there will always be a risk of been approached and get told off.
That’s the society we live in sadly.