Renewing a senior rail card.

[_toommm_]

Does the driving licence have to a new Photocard one or will my original green paper licence last issued in 1984 do?

Paper licenses have no legal status anymore, since they stopped being required to detail any points you’ve received (not sure when this happened, but it’s a good few years).

If you came to me with it for any financial transaction I’d politely send you away. Same with bus passes, railcards etc. - They’re not valid forms of ID.

 

[Haywain]

Therefore I must have obtained it without having either a driving licence or a passport.

As per the advice on the website about registering the paper railcard and renewing within 30 days of its expiry date.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

So, HSP 2, could you do as per Haywain above?

 

[father_jack]

Therefore I must have obtained it without having either a driving licence or a passport.

Not possible, please let us assure you.

Are you eligible - Senior Railcard

A quick check to make sure you're eligible...
You're eligible for a Senior Railcard if you are 60 years old or over.

You can buy one up to two weeks before your 60th birthday if you buy online, but it’ll only be valid from your birthday onwards. If you buy from a station, you’ll have to be 60 or over on the day you do it.



Buying online is easy. All you need is a valid debit or credit card and one of the items below:

• A valid passport number
• A valid UK driving licence

If you’d prefer to buy your Railcard at a staffed rail station, you can also use your birth certificate to prove your identity and age.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

If necessary I can provide photographic proof that I do have a three-year Senior Railcard.

But to reiterate:

I don't have a driving licence or a passport.

My first ever one-year Senior Railcard was obtained from my local station on production of birth certificate.

On renewal of my Railcard just over a year ago I obtained a three-year one. Apologies again about not remembering what I did, but Haywain indicates I must have done so online, as per his post. So I wondered if HSP 2 could do the same?

 

[XAM2175]

I'd imagine there must be a fair few people who bought their "forever home" in the 80s and 90s and are still living there today. Of course some of those people will now be over 70 but many won't

Yeah, that's a good point.

Paper licenses have no legal status anymore, since they stopped being required to detail any points you’ve received (not sure when this happened, but it’s a good few years).

Incorrect - the paper counterpart to UK driving licences was abolished in June 2015 and now has no legal status. Paper driving licences issued before 31 March 2000 remain valid until a change of address or other renewal occurs:

Driving licence counterpart abolished: changes you need to know

The paper counterpart to the photocard driving licence was abolished on 8 June 2015, so how you view your licence information has changed.

www.gov.uk

 

[Haywain]

Not possible, please let us assure you.

Apparently possible - see post #5.

 

[Shrewbly]

Does the driving licence have to a new Photocard one or will my original green paper licence last issued in 1984 do?

You can use a paper licence. I bought my first senior railcard (3 year) using the number from my paper licence in January this year.

 

[island]

Paper licenses have no legal status anymore, since they stopped being required to detail any points you’ve received (not sure when this happened, but it’s a good few years).

If you came to me with it for any financial transaction I’d politely send you away. Same with bus passes, railcards etc. - They’re not valid forms of ID.

That is incorrect. Paper licences are still valid until expiry as long as they are not associated with a photocard and the holder has not changed address, category entitlements etc. since being issued.

The paper counterpart to a photocard license is not valid any more in Great Britain (it is still valid in NI).

 

[Llanigraham]

As just about all gov. departments ask for your NI number as your third form of id . The first two are letters the next lot are numbers and the last one is a letter. try claiming any tax back. if you get the number wrong, as it tells your date of birth and a lot more.

Having worked for the DHSS before I joined the railway I can assure you that your NI number (AB 12 34 56 A) contains no direct reference to your date of birth. The letters and numbers are randomly selected. As an example, I know twins with totally different patterns of digits.
The fact that the Revenue or other Depts have more details is from subsequent details being added to your "account".

 

[Llanigraham]

When NI cards were routinely issued, they specifically stated that they were not to be used as ID. There are many problems with them, and they should not be regarded as more than a reference to the National Insurance database.

Quite!
It even says words to that effect on my plastic card.

 

[_toommm_]

That is incorrect. Paper licences are still valid until expiry as long as they are not associated with a photocard and the holder has not changed address, category entitlements etc. since being issued.

The paper counterpart to a photocard license is not valid any more in Great Britain (it is still valid in NI).

But they’re generally not valid as ID and you’ll find next to no one will accept a paper one as suitable ID.

 

[Hadders]

We seem to be going round in circles here:

You cannot purchase a 3 year Senior Railcard at a station
You can purchase a new 3 year Senior Railcard online but you need a passport of driving license to do so
You can register a one year Senior Railcard purchased at a station for an online account. This will enable you to renew your railcard online and purchase a 3 year version

The OP wants to let their current one year (station purchased) railcard expire and at a later date purchase a new 3 year one online. They can't do this unless they have a passport of driving license. They could register their current railcard online, renew online and buy a 3 year version but they cannot let the current railcard expire and purchase a new one online at a later date.

The use of paper driving licenses as a form of ID is probably best discussed in a separate thread.

 

[alastair]

Paper licenses have no legal status anymore, since they stopped being required to detail any points you’ve received (not sure when this happened, but it’s a good few years).

If you came to me with it for any financial transaction I’d politely send you away. Same with bus passes, railcards etc. - They’re not valid forms of ID.

Slightly OT but airlines such as Aer Lingus are happy to accept bus passes with photos as ID for domestic/Ireland flights. So for them they "are" valid ID...

 

[Vespa]

I did wonder why you couldn't use your last rail card number to verify your application.

I brought my first railcard online as it's registered, when renewal is due, I get an email invitation to renew, I put down my last disabled railcard number and it was done, I always brought a 3 year railcard.

I think because if you did it at a railway station rather than online there is no central digital record of your previous application, so at the next application you have to provide proof again.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I did wonder why you couldn't use your last rail card number to verify your application.

I brought my first railcard online as it's registered, when renewal is due, I get an email invitation to renew, I put down my last disabled railcard number and it was done, I always brought a 3 year railcard.

I think because if you did it at a railway station rather than online there is no central digital record of your previous application, so at the next application you have to provide proof again.

There is a central digital record but Stations don't have access.

 

[Qwerty133]

Paper licenses have no legal status anymore, since they stopped being required to detail any points you’ve received (not sure when this happened, but it’s a good few years).

If you came to me with it for any financial transaction I’d politely send you away. Same with bus passes, railcards etc. - They’re not valid forms of ID.

The vast majority of financial institutions continue to accept paper licences as valid ID, so I'd recommend checking your employers policy as such as a matter of urgency. Paper licences are not the same thing as the now withdrawn paper companion to the photocard and people with such licences have never had a photocard licence.

 

[Gloster]

The vast majority of financial institutions continue to accept paper licences as valid ID, so I'd recommend checking your employers policy as such as a matter of urgency. Paper licences are not the same thing as the now withdrawn paper companion to the photocard and people with such licences have never had a photocard licence.

The problem might be that, although a paper licence can still be valid in certain circumstances (holder has never changed address, name or types vehicles permitted to drive, etc.), the licence was issued so long ago that it is not considered recent. It is quite a few years since the DVLA started issuing photocards.

EDIT (after #49/50): To make it clear: it may still be valid and fine for road traffic matters, but organisations that normally accept driving licences as ID but are not legally bound to could see it as too old.

 

[island]

That does not matter. It is still acceptable ID, providing it bears a current address. (It is an offence not to tell the DVLA if you move house.)

 

[Haywain]

That does not matter. It is still acceptable ID, providing it bears a current address. (It is an offence not to tell the DVLA if you move house.)

It is only acceptable ID if a person or organisation chooses to accept it as such.

 

[David Goddard]

We seem to be going round in circles here:

You cannot purchase a 3 year Senior Railcard at a station
You can purchase a new 3 year Senior Railcard online but you need a passport of driving license to do so
You can register a one year Senior Railcard purchased at a station for an online account. This will enable you to renew your railcard online and purchase a 3 year version

The OP wants to let their current one year (station purchased) railcard expire and at a later date purchase a new 3 year one online. They can't do this unless they have a passport of driving license. They could register their current railcard online, renew online and buy a 3 year version but they cannot let the current railcard expire and purchase a new one online at a later date.

The use of paper driving licenses as a form of ID is probably best discussed in a separate thread.

Hallelujah! Thank you Hadders for summing up in one post what has took everyone else 40 posts to argue about. Job done.

 

[JBuchananGB]

I bought my first Senior Railcard at my local council office, as they offered a discount at the time. Had to produce evidence of date of birth (passport) and address (council tax Bill). I can see on the railcard website a history of four cards, 3 expired and one current, and I don’t think I’ve ever produced evidence of age or address since.

 

[87 027]

As with most things in life the acceptability of a driving licence (or other document) is not a simple yes/no and is a judgement for each organisation. The definitive guidance from UK government on acceptability of different forms of evidence in establishing someone's identity, and hence entitlement to something, is set out below. It gives examples of different forms of evidence having different levels of strength. How much strength is needed depends on what you are trying to protect. It notes that an identity document may prove that an identity exists, but not necessarily that it belongs to the person who is claiming it. Clearly evidence that includes a photograph is stronger than evidence which does not, and biometric evidence is strongest of all.

How to prove and verify someone's identity

www.gov.uk

 

[HSP 2]

You can register a one year Senior Railcard purchased at a station for an online account. This will enable you to renew your railcard online and purchase a 3 year version

The OP wants to let their current one year (station purchased) railcard expire and at a later date purchase a new 3 year one online. They can't do this unless they have a passport of driving license. They could register their current railcard online, renew online and buy a 3 year version but they cannot let the current railcard expire and purchase a new one online at a later date.

The use of paper driving licenses as a form of ID is probably best discussed in a separate thread.

Let me see if I've got this correct. I can register my one year rail card on line starting 30 days before it expires.

But not as was stated (post #32) within 30 days of expiring.

I do have an account but it only shows my family and friends rail card (3 year).

Can I look at adding my senior rail card now (my 30 days start on the 19/11/20).

Thanks

HSP2