Reopening to Padstow would generate more traffic than reopening Tavistock-Okehampton

[HSTEd]

Moderator note: Split from

Surely the case is now much stronger for Bere Alston - Tavistock - Okehampton!

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tavistock-re-opening-news.252662/ If Tavistock is now seriously on the cards and mention has also been made of a Dawlish coast diversion, surely the case is now much stronger for Bere Alston - Tavistock - Okehampton!

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Just in Devon, even. I suspect a new viaduct might pay for an entire line to Bideford ( not that that is one I'm proposing, I think changing to a bus might still be quicker... there's a dead straight A road from the station to Bideford ). I suspect even a brand new bridge across the Taw parallel to the road bridge, and a line to Braunton would probably come in less than a new viaduct.

Even the Tavistock-Okehampton section is likely to get you to Padstow, which I'm sure would generate an order of magnitude more traffic for the railway!

 

[BrianW]

Even the Tavistock-Okehampton section is likely to get you to Padstow, which I'm sure would generate an order of magnitude more traffic for the railway!

Evidence for these unsupported assertions? I dare say the Transport and Rail Ministers, and HMTreasury, would be pleased to consider a proposal and supporting business case for a private sector initiative along these lines.

 

[stuu]

Evidence for these unsupported assertions? I dare say the Transport and Rail Ministers, and HMTreasury, would be pleased to consider a proposal and supporting business case for a private sector initiative along these lines.

Have you ever been to Padstow?

I would expect a railway there would be similarly popular to the line to St Ives, vastly more new revenue to the railway network than linking two small towns via the arse end of nowhere

 

[Irascible]

Even the Tavistock-Okehampton section is likely to get you to Padstow, which I'm sure would generate an order of magnitude more traffic for the railway!

That would entirely depend if it's Padstow-Bodmin, or Padstow-Okehampton

( the latter is probably up there in the "worst cases for reopening" list! )

Padstow+Wadebridge is something around 13,000 pop. Not sure how much holiday traffic you'd pull in - Padstow's about as on the coast as Barnstaple is. It might stimulate some local public transport, I suppose - Polzeath would always be a ferry & bus ride though. Surprisingly the route seems intact all the way, including even Padstow station - although the solution to getting through Wadebridge should be interesting given there's a road directly on the route & no way around. Almost made for tram-trains.

 

[The Planner]

Get Rick Stein to chip in for Padstow.

 

[simonw]

Get Rick Stein to chip in for Padstow.

As they say in Padstow, what's the difference between God and Rick Stein? God is eveywhere, Rick Stein is every where but Padstow.

Returning to the original topic, had Padstow somehow remained open, and a car park developed enroute, I wouldn't be surprised if a train service was as busy as St Ives in summer and as empty in the winter.

 

[HSTEd]

Evidence for these unsupported assertions? I dare say the Transport and Rail Ministers, and HMTreasury, would be pleased to consider a proposal and supporting business case for a private sector initiative along these lines.

There is no business case for Padstow as a private sector initiative.
But there is no case for Tavistock-Okehampton at all.

How many people do you think want to travel from Okehampton to Plymouth using a route consisting of a transit of empty moorland before an achingly slow crawl through the Tamar valley?
Padstow and Wadebridge has a comparable population to Tavistock after all as well as being a significant tourist destination.

EDIT: and Wadebridge

 

[Ashley Hill]

an achingly slow crawl through the Tamar valley?

Bere Alston to Plymouth is not a slow crawl. Bere Alston to Gunnislake is!

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

There is no business case for Padstow as a private sector initiative.
But there is no case for Tavistock-Okehampton at all.

How many people do you think want to travel from Okehampton to Plymouth using a route consisting of a transit of empty moorland before an achingly slow crawl through the Tamar valley?
Padstow has a comparable population to Tavistock after all as well as being a significant tourist destination.

Padstow population 2,671 Tavistock 12,675 (2021 Census). One of the major difficulties of restoring services to Padstow would be getting through Wadebridge - the formation and level crossing has completely disappeared. The Bodmin Steam Rly proposed a few years ago to extend to the outskirts of Wadebridge to a storm of NIMBY protests and loss of the Camel Trail.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes. How many of them would take the train there, I wonder, given the local amenities aren't as immediate as Newquay et al. I'm sure a number would.

Indeed. I could forsee quite a few doing hops between the three towns on the route.

Given the others that survived, its extraordinary that it didn't. Can only assume that it was down to Western Region "geopolitics".

 

[simonw]

Indeed. I could forsee quite a few doing hops between the three towns on the route.

Given the others that survived, its extraordinary that it didn't. Can only assume that it was down to Western Region "geopolitics".

Padstow's days were numbered after the 1955 rail strike when the only consistent traffic - fish deserted the railway. Outside of Summer saturdays, traffic was light to non-existent

 

[yorksrob]

Padstow's days were numbered after the 1955 rail strike when the only consistent traffic - fish deserted the railway. Outside of Summer saturdays, traffic was light to non-existent

The 1955 strike killed off the pick-up goods traffic nationwide. It's hard to imagine the other branches in Cornwall would have been much different.

 

[simonw]

The 1955 strike killed off the pick-up goods traffic nationwide. It's hard to imagine the other branches in Cornwall would have been much different.

I'm not sure what point you are making, but yes this is why (coupled with passengers switching to road) it and others were closed..

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not sure what point you are making, but yes this is why (coupled with passengers switching to road) it and others were closed..

But a remarkable number in Cornwall survived and thrived, so it seems odd that this one didn't.

 

[simonw]

But a remarkable number in Cornwall survived and thrived, so it seems odd that this one didn't.

I think the closed mileage easily outweighs that remaining

 

[Irascible]

Given the others that survived, its extraordinary that it didn't. Can only assume that it was down to Western Region "geopolitics".

Given how much GWR route mileage the WR shut in the southwest, I've never believed that one for a second. What was the service pattern to Bodmin ( Road was it? ) like? given the reversal needed on the way I bet it wasn't massively attractive...

 

[bramling]

But a remarkable number in Cornwall survived and thrived, so it seems odd that this one didn't.

Was Padstow such a popular day trip destination then? There’s a lot less there than at St Ives.

 

[Irascible]

Polzeath ( also just across the river ) is a fairly popular holiday - and possibly surfing? don't remember fully - beach. Even I despite growing up in Devon within easy reach of plenty of beach stayed there as a kid.

 

[yorksrob]

Given how much GWR route mileage the WR shut in the southwest, I've never believed that one for a second. What was the service pattern to Bodmin ( Road was it? ) like? given the reversal needed on the way I bet it wasn't massively attractive...

I'm knot sure about frequency (can't have been much more sparse than Looe or Newquay surely ?)

I doubt the reversal would have made much odds to DMU services, although would have required signalling of some sort.

Was Padstow such a popular day trip destination then? There’s a lot less there than at St Ives.

That's a fair point. It might have been less of a destination then. I'm still surprised that Bodmin/Wadebridge didn't generate more traffic though.

 

[stuu]

I wouldn't be surprised if the local councils had wanted to get rid of the level crossing and route through the middle of Wadebridge

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn't be surprised if the local councils had wanted to get rid of the level crossing and route through the middle of Wadebridge

Yes, such misguided motivations have been known.

 

[stuu]

Yes, such misguided motivations have been known.

It was only misguided with hindsight. At the time filthy old steam trains running every couple of hours were things of the past. Something like if now people were campaigning to keep video shops open, when it's obviously not the future

 

[Mikey C]

Padstow is a tiny place, and many visitors will be self catering or touring, for which a car is so much more practical. The bus service isn't too bad either for day trippers. Padstow isn't a Looe or St Ives.

And the Camel Trail is a very popular local amenity.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Polzeath ( also just across the river ) is a fairly popular holiday - and possibly surfing? don't remember fully - beach. Even I despite growing up in Devon within easy reach of plenty of beach stayed there as a kid.

Yes - superb beach and a very popular surfing resort, although obviously not quite on a Newquay scale. There’s been quite an extensive development of up market self catering holiday apartment/houses at Polzeath over the last 20-30 years or so, compared to what was there when I used to visit as a youngster whilst on holiday with family back in the 60s/70s.

 

[yorksrob]

It was only misguided with hindsight. At the time filthy old steam trains running every couple of hours were things of the past. Something like if now people were campaigning to keep video shops open, when it's obviously not the future

There were often plenty of people pointing out the error of the closure programme at the time. They were dismissed as behind the times by those in power.

The video shop example isn't really relevant because there was never a consideration of the passenger railway doing a Blockbusters and completely dissappearing.

I think the closed mileage easily outweighs that remainingView attachment 154139

You're right in that there was still a lot of milage lost. Does the "withered arm" count as a branch line though !

 

[SynthD]

Double the line to Newquay and add “for Padstow” to St Colomb Rd, with a good bus service mostly on the A road?

The freight lines south of St Colomb Major go near the towns of St Dennis and Nanpean. In both cases there appears to be a place for a station within a few hundred metres of the freight line, without any road or river crossing or major change in elevation. If new stations are desperately needed any where possible within Cornwall I’d start there.

 

[brad465]

I think the closed mileage easily outweighs that remaining

Looking at that map I suspect the Bodmin general reversal requirement would make the journey notably longer and lower the business case, while the North Cornwall railway route is a non-starter in so many ways, so a lot would have to change to connect Padstow once more.

 

[yorksrob]

Looking at that map I suspect the Bodmin general reversal requirement would make the journey notably longer and lower the business case, while the North Cornwall railway route is a non-starter in so many ways, so a lot would have to change to connect Padstow once more.

The Bodmin reversal is a mere trifle compared to Eastbourne and Castleford for example.

 

[cle]

Would this never make sense coming from Tavistock and through Launceston? Longer reinstatement but covers another previously railway-ed town which might be less seasonal in demand.

And would be quicker to Exeter / London etc - assuming Cornish and Plymouth demand could be bus-based.

 

[HSTEd]

Would this never make sense coming from Tavistock and through Launceston? Longer reinstatement but covers another previously railway-ed town which might be less seasonal in demand.

And would be quicker to Exeter / London etc - assuming Cornish and Plymouth demand could be bus-based.

That's likely to put the price well into billions of pounds. Plus the upgrades necessary to the existing Tamar valley line.