Replacement bus services on strike days?

[Wilts Wanderer]

By that logic, there should be no service anywhere on any strike day, since people will show up expecting to travel to various destinations, only to find out that they can't! I actually witnessed this happen on Friday, but I'm glad that I could still complete my journey, and staff were proactive in informing passengers of the situation. If it's possible to provide a service and there is any genuine demand it should run.

But the difference with the train service is that it is rail staff and there will be announcements about strike services etc, provide advice/assistance etc, exactly what you saw. With RRS it’s a contract coach driver who is paid to drive from A to B and is very unlikely to provide any onward travel info for passengers. Sometimes you don't even enter the station in order to board the bus.

 

[Watershed]

I’m afraid you’re just wrong here.

If there’s a limited train service to connect into, then the buses will likely run. But if there’s no onward connection into a train at the interchange point, then it would be farcical to run the buses. No matter how well strikes are publicised people will still turn up completely unaware that the normal service isn’t running. (My next door neighbour did exactly this yesterday, turned up at our local station en-route to a restaurant date for a train that wasn’t running because of the ASLEF strike.) At least if they find out there’s no service at their home station, they can change their plans without further inconvenience. If they don’t find out until they’re getting OFF the bus at the other end, I suspect staff would be in danger of assault.

But what is the difference between, say, GWR running services to Plymouth and no further (meaning passengers to Penzance are stranded) and running replacement buses from Oxford to Didcot even if there are no trains to connect into?

Ultimately, unless there's a normal timetable running on all routes, there is always the risk of people getting stuck on strike days. That's not an excuse for not bothering to run replacement buses that were already planned (yet still likely being liable for their costs).

As I say, it's an attitude that is utterly wrong. It treats all customers as idiots.

Whilst some may not do the amount of prior research that the industry would like them to, firstly that should not be necessary in the first place. There should be a basic level of service on all routes on strike days, and hopefully the Minimum Service Level Bill will ensure that.

More importantly, any risk of assault would be greatly reduced if the industry actually bothered to comply with its obligation to provide alternative transport or accommodation for those who had already bought a ticket before the strike or resultant timetable was announced/indicated.

But the difference with the train service is that it is rail staff and there will be announcements about strike services etc, provide advice/assistance etc, exactly what you saw. With RRS it’s a contract coach driver who is paid to drive from A to B and is very unlikely to provide any onward travel info for passengers. Sometimes you don't even enter the station in order to board the bus.

Then provide staff at either end to assist passengers. It's really not rocket science; the industry has simply developed this policy since Covid, and will now use any old spurious reason to try and justify it.

 

[yorkie]

I’m afraid you’re just wrong here.

If there’s a limited train service to connect into, then the buses will likely run. But if there’s no onward connection into a train at the interchange point, then it would be farcical to run the buses. No matter how well strikes are publicised people will still turn up completely unaware that the normal service isn’t running. (My next door neighbour did exactly this yesterday, turned up at our local station en-route to a restaurant date for a train that wasn’t running because of the ASLEF strike.) At least if they find out there’s no service at their home station, they can change their plans without further inconvenience. If they don’t find out until they’re getting OFF the bus at the other end, I suspect staff would be in danger of assault.

That makes no sense; you seem to be saying that if a full service cannot be provided, no service should be, as otherwise someone may be conveyed part way?

I’m afraid you’re just wrong here.

I don't think you can rule out the possibility that you are wrong

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I don't think you can rule out the possibility that you are wrong

I think that might be a matter of opinion…

 

[yorkie]

I think that might be a matter of opinion…

Exactly my point! I concur with @Mainline421 and @Watershed's replies above; your logic is deeply flawed in my opinion.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

That makes no sense; you seem to be saying that if a full service cannot be provided, no service should be, as otherwise someone may be conveyed part way?

No, I’m saying that if there are no rail services to connect into at the interchange point (which may be a fairly minor station depending on the engineering work limits) then pulling the rail replacement bus services isn’t an unreasonable action, particularly if a message of ‘there’s no services on this route on strike day X’ has been publicised.

 

[yorkie]

No, I’m saying that if there are no rail services to connect into at the interchange point (which may be a fairly minor station depending on the engineering work limits) then pulling the rail replacement bus services isn’t an unreasonable action, particularly if a message of ‘there’s no services on this route on strike day X’ has been publicised.

I think each instance would be best decided on its own merits, taking all the relevant factors into account. For example if Leeds to York was bustituted it wouldn't make sense to scrap that, as it's a high demand flow in its own right. You appeared to be suggesting overarching reasons against such provision, which I strongly disagree with.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

More importantly, any risk of assault would be greatly reduced if the industry actually bothered to comply with its obligation to provide alternative transport or accommodation for those who had already bought a ticket before the strike or resultant timetable was announced/indicated.

Then provide staff at either end to assist passengers. It's really not rocket science; the industry has simply developed this policy since Covid, and will now use any old spurious reason to try and justify it.

I‘m not familiar with that legal requirement. Can you provide evidence for it? Refunds yes, alternative transport or accommodation… no.

Ah yes, provide staff. Presumably these are different staff to those that are on strike, or the managers drafted in to work trains / man signalling centres where possible. How many staff would you like at each station?

I think each instance would be best decided on its own merits, taking all the relevant factors into account. For example if Leeds to York was bustituted it wouldn't make sense to scrap that, as it's a high demand flow in its own right. You appeared to be suggesting overarching reasons against such provision, which I strongly disagree with.

I agree a degree of common sense should come into it. Perhaps the OP’s example of Derby-Matlock is one of those, I was admittedly visualising something more temporary than a complete route block.

 

[Horizon22]

Then provide staff at either end to assist passengers. It's really not rocket science; the industry has simply developed this policy since Covid, and will now use any old spurious reason to try and justify it.

Who are coming from where on a strike day? The whole point of a strike is the removal of labour...

 

[Kite159]

Good thing the rail replacement buses were still running between Leeds & Huddersfield this evening, nearly a full coach on the 21;50 service.
Saved waiting round in the busy bus station for the 22;24 route 203 Arriva service after the 21;24 service was cancelled.

Leeds station itself was all locked up.

 

[Watershed]

No, I’m saying that if there are no rail services to connect into at the interchange point (which may be a fairly minor station depending on the engineering work limits) then pulling the rail replacement bus services isn’t an unreasonable action, particularly if a message of ‘there’s no services on this route on strike day X’ has been publicised.

The latter justification is putting the horse before the cart! Pulling the rail replacement bus will never be a reasonable action. It involves spaffing public money up the wall in order to inconvenience members of the public. You really couldn't make it up if you tried.

I‘m not familiar with that legal requirement. Can you provide evidence for it? Refunds yes, alternative transport or accommodation… no.

It's been discussed at length in previous threads; the obligation arises under NRCoT condition 28.2, Articles 16 and 18 of the PRO, as well as consumer and basic contract law.

Of course, the railway seems to think that it can exempt itself from such obligations by declaring that it won't provide any alternatives. I suppose it's not entirely wrong in a practical sense, because 99.9% of people aren't aware of their legal rights and won't bother pursuing it, and the regulator isn't interested in taking enforcement action over these flagrant breaches of operators' licence obligations.

Ah yes, provide staff. Presumably these are different staff to those that are on strike, or the managers drafted in to work trains / man signalling centres where possible. How many staff would you like at each station?

The level of training required for a non-striking member of TOC staff to provide assistance at a station is minimal. In fact, it's essentially just an email briefing in most cases, telling them who to direct customers to if there are problems they can't solve directly.

However, it's clear from your line of questioning that you're merely seeking to poke holes in the idea, even though staff are provided at many stations on strike days, and replacement buses have ran and indeed been enhanced during many pre-Covid strikes.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I’m afraid you’re just wrong here.

If there’s a limited train service to connect into, then the buses will likely run. [...]

That's not true for SWR land. On a normal strike day, SWR usually runs fast trains along the SWML from 7am to 7pm, from Waterloo to Southampton.
This Saturday (13 May), there are planned engineering works from Basingstoke to Southampton and RRBs were initially planned. However, these have all been cancelled because of the strike.

This isn't the first instance for SWR. I have posted this before for previous strikes:

Already-planned RRBs on strike days

If replacement buses are scheduled due to planned engineering works, and a strike is then announced for the day in question, is it a safe assumption that the buses will run as planned (assuming no unrelated problems like bus driver availability)? My particular journey is from Heysham to...

www.railforums.co.uk

SWR Strike Timetables

Perhaps you haven't read the last few comments in this thread so I'll summarise as you've maybe got the wrong end of the stick: Post #264: why no service via Cobham? Post #267: apparently the signallers weren't doing overtime. In assuming that signallers would normally do some amount of...

www.railforums.co.uk

In the 2nd link above, if you click the SWR map (which is still alive), you'll see trains were running between Waterloo & Woking, and Basingstoke & Southampton, with engineering works between Woking & Basingstoke. The RRBs have been cancelled as explained in the box on the left of the map. So this makes the Basingtoke - Southampton section a stranded branch line.

This is a situation which is the reverse of what you described. The trains are channeling the people to Basingstoke but with no way to get to London.

 

[MikeWM]

It seems GN aren't bothering to run any buses at all tomorrow, despite usually having a twice-an-hour service running on strike days between the two.

...turns out they found some, by yesterday morning there was a twice-an-hour service in the timetable, and I did see buses running from Ely forecourt.

They weren't in the timetable Friday evening though, so not terribly for people trying to plan anything.

 

[Johnnyp88]

It has been often observed that with strike days in the south, a number of booked rail replacements for Southern/GTR have continued to operate but these don't get advertised

One occasion during the 1st set of current strikes, one such rail replacement was Purley - Redhill and not only did this continue to operate but the actual work had been cancelled so you had a reduced train service and the buses running

 

[21C101]

I never mentioned BR.

During a number of disputes early in the SWT franchise Stagecoach drafted in buses and drivers from far and wide, including Scotland.

Now the railways can't even be bothered to run the buses they've already committed to, even though the bus companies themselves aren't on strike. Hopefully the bus operators get a 100% cancellation fee for being messed around.

This happened on Thameslink last Saturday. The line was shut for engineering works planned months in advance and buses that were due to run from Bedford to Luton and Luton to West Hampstead Thameslink (where overground and Jubilee were running) were cancelled as a result of the strike.

Smacks of collusion between the employer and strikers.

As you say, compare and contrast with Stagecoach in 2002.

Except there is already the precedent that a limited train service is offered on strike days - which may well have exactly the same effect.

Providing nothing is almost never going to be worse than providing something. This industry position that your post reflects is emblematic of everything that's wrong with the industry's attitude to customer service.

+1

 

[CAF397]

Providing nothing is almost never going to be worse than providing something. This industry position that your post reflects is emblematic of everything that's wrong with the industry's attitude to customer service.

Excellent example of that this weekend (Sunday - not a strike day but example of poor customer service).

Engineering work Manchester Airport - Manchester Piccadilly.

TPE services diverted from Manchester Victoria via Brighouse to Leeds, York and beyond.

Rail replacement buses run Manchester Airport to Manchester Piccadilly! Anyone for stations to Yorkshire/North East have to make their own way to Manchester Victoria.

Why? Why can the railway not run a rail replacement bus to the station where the train is now starting?