Reservations - do you HAVE to sit in a reserved seat?

[infobleep]

Digressing slightly, I observed something a few weeks ago as I was prepping the train.

An unreserved table for four, and two people boarding sat at it. There was a bag already on one seat. The chap who's bag it was comes back from the luggage rack, says "Excuse me I was sitting there". The two people who were at the table (which still had two empty seats at it) aoplogised and moved to a two-seat airline seat, leaving chappie on his own at the table - which he continued to occupy in solitary splendour for the next two hours.

Who else would have moved, and who would have pointed at the two empty seats and said "Which one were you in?"

(I was praying for somebody (preferably with a child) to ask was there a table seat, because I knew exactly where I was going to direct them to! Unfortunately, nobody did.)

Slightly related story. I once boarded a bust 7.17 Guildford to Waterloo service. Usually I'd change at Woking as you can't get a seat.

On thus particular day a lady had her dog on a seat. I politely ask if I could sit there. Her reply was do you mind but my dog is rather poorly. To which I reply. "I do as I have ankylosing spondylitis". The lady had probably never heard of the condition, which is a form of arthritis but did move the dog on to her lap and I sat down. I imagine other passengers would have just starred and said nothing.

Being polite I thanked the lady as I got off. Hopefully she learnt from the experience.

 

[Deerfold]

Slightly related story. I once boarded a bust 7.17 Guildford to Waterloo service. Usually I'd change at Woking as you can't get a seat.

On thus particular day a lady had her dog on a seat. I politely ask if I could sit there. Her reply was do you mind but my dog is rather poorly. To which I reply. "I do as I have ankylosing spondylitis". The lady had probably never heard of the condition, which is a form of arthritis but did move the dog on to her lap and I sat down.

I'm not sure I (or many other people) would want to sit on a seat that had had a dog on it. Especially if it was poorly.

I imagine other passengers would have just stained and said nothing.

Fortunately I've never done that on a train.

 

[infobleep]

I'd probably say "Sorry, which seat were you sitting in?" and allow him to sit in that one, but the bag would be moved to allow me to sit in the one he wasn't sitting in. If it wasn't moved by him, it'd be moved by me.

Neil

I was once on a busy train and said to someone you may want to move your bag as the train gets busy. They weren't to happy. Said they didn't want to be parted from it.

On another train I asked to sit in a seat where from where a bag was located and the person got up saying they were getting off at the next stop. They then said to a standing passenger, you can sit there now as I'm getting off. I don't know what if anything, the conversation between them had been before I boarded. However the other passenger didn't move into the seat. Some psychological games going on I thought
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The point had been made that Advance ticket holders have to take a particular train. Enabling them to be sure they will be able to is one possible reason for seat reservations.

(Flexible ticket holders could theoretically take another train if they find theirs is full to the brim; Advance ticket holders have no such "luxury".)

London Midland and South West Trains have proved you don't need a seat reservation to tie people to a set train. Just putting **** where the seat reservation would otherwise be is good enough.

 

[Flamingo]

In that case, apologies for putting two and two together and making five

No worries, I should have explained the whole scenario.

 

[Deerfold]

I catch EC trains out of Kings Cross in the evening peak. Most people have a reserved seat - so people split up as they find the right carriage. With luck they get on the right door. I can see this being a bit of a nightmare if no-one with an Advance ticket had a reservation, with far more people getting on the first available carriage and trying to work their way down the train.

 

[Flamingo]

I catch EC trains out of Kings Cross in the evening peak. Most people have a reserved seat - so people split up as they find the right carriage. With luck they get on the right door. I can see this being a bit of a nightmare if no-one with an Advance ticket had a reservation, with far more people getting on the first available carriage and trying to work their way down the train.

True. The advantage with reservations is that a lot of people that otherwise would not spread themselves around the train will do so to find their reserved seat.

 

[pne]

London Midland and South West Trains have proved you don't need a seat reservation to tie people to a set train.

Point.

 

[westv]

So why not charge EC season ticket holdefs for their reservations. Cheeky so and sos pay a pittance per journey and end up just clogging up seats meant for noble walk up fare payers.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Because those season ticket holders pay far more per journey than people travelling on stupidly cheap advanced purchase fares. Without season ticket holders you wouldn't have much of a railway network at all, it wouldn't have a great deal of purpose existing. Your season ticket holders are your bread and butter, your walk up purchasers are your jam, and I suppose your AP ticket holders are the carrier bag you bring your shopping home in.

 

[alastair]

Because those season ticket holders pay far more per journey than people travelling on stupidly cheap advanced purchase fares. Without season ticket holders you wouldn't have much of a railway network at all, it wouldn't have a great deal of purpose existing. Your season ticket holders are your bread and butter, your walk up purchasers are your jam, and I suppose your AP ticket holders are the carrier bag you bring your shopping home in.

Are you quite sure about that? Take a season-ticket holder from (say) Grantham to Kings Cross paying £7984 a year. Travelling 5 days a week with a generous 5 weeks holiday thats £17 each way & £34 return. Looking at a few days next week I can't see any advance fares available in peak hours for less than around £80 return minimum. Yes there are much cheaper advance fares at off peak times but thats to be expected as thats when spare seats are available.

Could it not be argued that,given the massive resources of rolling stock,staff ect required to cope with commuting demand,it is actually the season ticket holder who is paying the "stupidly cheap" fare?

 

[185143]

A question that came up when me and my partner were travelling this weekend...

My partner had an Advance single with a seat reservation, I had an off-peak return, and she was reserved somewhere in coach C (because AGA only ever seem to reserve Advance tickets in coach C). We moved into the next coach so we could sit together and she could face forward, and the guard didn't seem to care much about her being in entirely the wrong seat - lucky, since we were worried about her getting a penalty fare.

So, my question is... does the TOC actually care if you sit in your reserved seat or not? And are you liable for a penalty fare (or having to purchase a new ticket) for sitting in a seat that isn't one on your Advance ticket?

(And also, why does AGA insist on seating everyone on Advance tickets in the same bloody coach so you end up in the most cramped coach of them all and inevitably end up opposite a group of teenagers blaring music out of their phones...)

Not stereotypical at all...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not stereotypical at all...

My experience these days is that it is a much wider set of people blaring out television programmes and movies from tablets without headphones, TBH. Not usually teenagers.

<runs for the quiet coach wishing for Merseyrail-style zero tolerance enforcement of the "causing annoyance using sound equipment" Byelaw... >

Neil

 

[PermitToTravel]

Enforcement by means of turret gun would be nice

 

[yorksrob]

True. The advantage with reservations is that a lot of people that otherwise would not spread themselves around the train will do so to find their reserved seat.

I generally find the opposite to be true - i.e. a gridlock of people all trying to find their reserved seat in the couple of carriages where all the reservations are.

 

[Kite159]

I generally find the opposite to be true - i.e. a gridlock of people all trying to find their reserved seat in the couple of carriages where all the reservations are.

Agreed
When the reservations end up in one part, passengers with reservations will head to that part instead of the unreserved parts.

 

[Deerfold]

I generally find the opposite to be true - i.e. a gridlock of people all trying to find their reserved seat in the couple of carriages where all the reservations are.

Well, obviously that depends on how the reservation system works. On EC the reservations are usually spread throughout the train. If they're all at one end then that's less useful.