Retired staff travel card...

[exbrel]

hi,
my first post and apologies if not in the right place, when I retired I qualified thru years of service for 16 "boxes". My first noteable delay/cancellation happened recently, it was the 1635 Bath spa to Portsmouth harbour was 8mins late arriving at Bath we boarded and at 1655 after a couple of fitters walking up/down the platform it was pulled out of service. It was announced that the next service to P.H. would be the 1735 which arrived a few mins late, this was full before all the 16.35pm passengers got on, but it got away after 10mins or so. Seen the advertising for delay compo, and wondered why we can't claim even a basic sum, as we are delayed aswell as fare paying passengers.
Years ago when I got the 3, I was told they were not a gift or concession but were in lieu of a pay rise...

 

[6Gman]

I strongly suspect the answer is No.

Depending on the operator a complaint might prompt some sort of gesture of goodwill, but I don't think there's any entitlement.

50% of 0 = 0

100% of 0 = 0

 

[Darandio]

Indeed, as with many similar threads on here there is absolutely no harm in asking, just don't expect anything and any goodwill gesture is a bonus.

 

[matt_world2004]

What happens if you tick a box and you abandon journey due to disruption

 

[exbrel]

At least we don't have to give up our seats (if we've got one) to any passenger standing now, so I suppose that a bonus...

 

[Signal Head]

What happens if you tick a box and you abandon journey due to disruption

"Tough ****!", I believe.

When 'boxes' were introduced (mid 80s I think) to replace the previous system of having to apply for individual tickets through your staff office there was a formula to 'convert' the entitlement.

This was, from memory "double the number of tickets, and add two", so my original entitlement of 4 tickets (per year) would have become 10 boxes.

The reason for the 'add two' was given as an allowance for either the member of staff making a mistake in filling the date in and having to forfeit the box, or disrupted journeys leading to a wasted box.

Basically, the entitlement already includes an allowance for wastage.

 

[greyman42]

At least we don't have to give up our seats (if we've got one) to any passenger standing now, so I suppose that a bonus...

Is this because you are retired or because of your age, as in some people take early retirement?

 

[greyman42]

"Tough ****!", I believe.

When 'boxes' were introduced (mid 80s I think) to replace the previous system of having to apply for individual tickets through your staff office there was a formula to 'convert' the entitlement.

This was, from memory "double the number of tickets, and add two", so my original entitlement of 4 tickets (per year) would have become 10 boxes.

The reason for the 'add two' was given as an allowance for either the member of staff making a mistake in filling the date in and having to forfeit the box, or disrupted journeys leading to a wasted box.

Basically, the entitlement already includes an allowance for wastage.

Does having to pay for your passes have any bearing on the matter?

 

[Haywain]

Does having to pay for your passes have any bearing on the matter?

If you mean in the sense that they are taxed, no it doesn't.

 

[Signal Head]

Is this because you are retired or because of your age, as in some people take early retirement?

If the pass is marked as 'Retired' then the requirement to give up seats to paying customers does not apply.

I became 'retired' at a fairly young age so I don't look of retirement age (well, I didn't, ravages of time & work have probably taken their toll since then, and bets are probably best 'off'!), so I still tend not to take a seat if it looks like there are people in more need of it, I'd feel awkward if I didn't.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

At least we don't have to give up our seats (if we've got one) to any passenger standing now, so I suppose that a bonus...

I don't think I have ever witnessed any 'active' members of staff being made to give up their seats

 

[Haywain]

I don't think I have ever witnessed any 'active' members of staff being made to give up their seats

I have! On an extremely busy East Coast train from London to Scotland a few years back, staff sitting in first class where asked to vacate their seats so that paying customers could sit down. I offered to help the catering crew and got tasked with sitting in the crew seats keeping an eye on their belongings!

 

[Mag_seven]

I have! On an extremely busy East Coast train from London to Scotland a few years back, staff sitting in first class where asked to vacate their seats so that paying customers could sit down. I offered to help the catering crew and got tasked with sitting in the crew seats keeping an eye on their belongings!

Likewise on VTEC from York. The previous train had been cancelled and the guard made the following announcement word for word!

"Would all BR pass holders vacate their seats immediately due to two trains in one"

 

[6Gman]

If the pass is marked as 'Retired' then the requirement to give up seats to paying customers does not apply.

I became 'retired' at a fairly young age so I don't look of retirement age (well, I didn't, ravages of time & work have probably taken their toll since then, and bets are probably best 'off'!), so I still tend not to take a seat if it looks like there are people in more need of it, I'd feel awkward if I didn't.

I gained "Retired" status on my PT Card at age 40 or 41 so wouldn't hesitate to give up my seat.

Now I apply the rule - "If a lady is old enough to be your mother, or a man is old enough to be your grandfather, offer your seat".

 

[matt_world2004]

If you had a non retired one and had a disability that made standing difficult would you still have to stand

 

[6Gman]

If you had a non retired one and had a disability that made standing difficult would you still have to stand

I assume no guard/conductor would insist on you standing.

In practice, I think very few would actually implement this rule in any event.

 

[Elecman]

I was once travelling on a Box after an accident which left me temporarily on crutches. Gave up my reserved seat for a fare paying passenger as per the requirements without being asked. Train Manager can through shortly afterwards checking tickets and promptly told me (very quietly) to go sit in First

 

[6Gman]

I was once travelling on a Box after an accident which left me temporarily on crutches. Gave up my reserved seat for a fare paying passenger as per the requirements without being asked. Train Manager can through shortly afterwards checking tickets and promptly told me (very quietly) to go sit in First

Perfect solution!

 

[exbrel]

Is this because you are retired or because of your age, as in some people take early retirement?

sorry for late reply, i'm having yahoo trouble again... I was made redundant, but with 28yrs service, so entitled to 16 passes...

 

[tiptoptaff]

I feel this is where those of us not lucky enough to have free passes benefit over those with boxes. I would be entitled to delay repay on my PRIV ticket, but in the case of those with boxes, it's tough, really. It's a compensation scheme based on the value of your ticket - which in that case, would be, erm, £0. And any % of £0 is £0.

 

[exbrel]

hi ttt,
but as we are delayed, are we not being discriminated against? although no fare has been paid, it is in lieu of a monetary pay award... so could it be calculated on the cheapest journey available.

 

[najaB]

but as we are delayed, are we not being discriminated against?

As long as compensation is based on fare paid, no. If you receive a 100% refund on the fare paid: 100% x £0 = £0, same as 100% x £50 = £50.

 

[MichaelAMW]

hi ttt,
but as we are delayed, are we not being discriminated against? although no fare has been paid, it is in lieu of a monetary pay award... so could it be calculated on the cheapest journey available.

Others may be more polite, but I am not afraid to say you should count yourself lucky to have all that free travel when you are not even (any more, I appreciate) employed by the railway. As I understand it, people who have started in the last 22 years get nothing in retirement.

The compensation has the effect of saying that you didn't get what you paid for so the journey that you did have to endure was rendered free for you. In your case, that's no different - your journey has ended up being free, so your outcome is precisely the same. The only alternative would have been to buy a ticket and then you could have claimed, but that wouldn't have made you any better off. Your situation is that for nearly every journey you make you save a lot of money, and occasionally you don't.

 

[some bloke]

free travel ....people who have started in the last 22 years get nothing in retirement.

...your journey has ended up being free

If a benefit is in lieu of a pay rise, the journeys are not free in the normal sense. Later employees' remuneration and pensions are on a different basis, so I'm not sure that comparison is fair.

Whether the original terms on which the benefit was given are now provable, whether the company would see it the same way as the original arrangement did (verbally or otherwise), and whether the "free journeys" could reasonably be valued at the same price as particular tickets, might be other, separate matters.

 

[MichaelAMW]

If a benefit is in lieu of a pay rise, the journeys are not free in the normal sense. Later employees' remuneration and pensions are on a different basis, so I'm not sure that comparison is fair.

Whether the original terms on which the benefit was given are now provable, whether the company would see it the same way as the original arrangement did (verbally or otherwise), and whether the "free journeys" could reasonably be valued at the same price as particular tickets, might be other, separate matters.

I didn't miss the point about benefits being in lieu of a pay rise; I was making a comparison between people who are no longer being paid. I suppose you could say that pensions from ex-BR employees were based on lower salaries so that the free travel in retirement is a pension benefit, although that wouldn't be the case for those who have also worked under the TOC model as their T&C would be the same as more recent arrivals but with the addition of those post-retirement benefits.

 

[some bloke]

I didn't miss the point aboouut benefits being in lieu of a pay rise...you could say that pensions from ex-BR employees were based on lower salaries so that the free travel in retirement is a pension benefit...

Good point. And it would seem fair to add that to the fact that the benefit is in lieu of a pay rise in the first place. Comparing parts of remuneration packages may mislead.

 

[AlterEgo]

hi ttt,
but as we are delayed, are we not being discriminated against? although no fare has been paid, it is in lieu of a monetary pay award... so could it be calculated on the cheapest journey available.

How can you be discriminated against? You didn’t pay for your journey. It was free.

 

[philthetube]

I feel this is where those of us not lucky enough to have free passes benefit over those with boxes. I would be entitled to delay repay on my PRIV ticket, but in the case of those with boxes, it's tough, really. It's a compensation scheme based on the value of your ticket - which in that case, would be, erm, £0. And any % of £0 is £0.

not sure how never paying is better than paying 90%of time and being able to claim fares back 10% of time but this sounds like some serious half empty logic to me.

 

[tiptoptaff]

not sure how never paying is better than paying 90%of time and being able to claim fares back 10% of time but this sounds like some serious half empty logic to me.

Because overall, even with the delay replay I could claim they cannot, I will stay pay more over the year for rail travel than them.

 

[ag51ruk]

hi ttt,
but as we are delayed, are we not being discriminated against? although no fare has been paid, it is in lieu of a monetary pay award... so could it be calculated on the cheapest journey available.

I'm not aware of any staff travel concessions ever being given instead of a pay rise- what gave you that idea? The unions would never have gone for that!

Additional boxes were given for length of service but that was additional to any rise. As retired staff, there is no cost for your travel facilities so it doesn't count as a benefit in kind. If you want to qualify for delay repay, you need to pay for your tickets- priv tickets do qualify.