Return To Leeds

[neilmc]

Just been back to Leeds for a few days and did a few local bus journeys, mostly with First. Generally the buses seemed to be of good quality and a definite improvement was the electronic display of the next stop which was very useful for anyone travelling to a major destination. A First Leeds Day fare of £4.70 was OK given that it could be used for quite a distance e.g. Wetherby, Otley or Aberford - but not Bradford! - I bought one for my wife although we only used it for Moortown to town and back. However the main beef was the dreadful timekeeping, even on a Saturday! When we were returning home via Harehills, four buses (two service 12, one 13 and one 13a) all turned up at the same time, which means that three of them were severely delayed. When I worked on the buses all of over 50 years ago, you could expect to lose time on Mon-Fri peak journeys but never on Saturday. One culprit is clearly the decision to pedestrianise Briggate and force all buses running North-South via Vicar Lane, and the Corn Exchange/Boar Lane/Kirkgate junction was hopelessly congested with East-West and North-South routes using the same junctions. Other routes such as 4 and 16 had buses running in tandem and if I were a regular Leeds bus traveller this would really make me cross. I expect it's even worse at weekday peak.

The previous day I also caught an Arriva 167 Leeds-Castleford and it was quite ridiculous the way this route looped from City Square via Infirmary Street, Headrow and Corn Exchange to get to Crown Point, it took almost half the journey time to Swillington to get out of Leeds centre - why don't routes such as this use the Bus Station for which it was designed, to get quickly out of town?

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

I hate to make a bit of a naff point but: that's just Leeds! Lived here all my life and never known any different.

Yesterday I saw two 14s and two 60s running together (both of these are meant to be half hourly).

 

[bluenoxid]

Welcome to Leeds. People are very frustrated and it is unlikely to get better for a good few months.

Saturdays are busy in Leeds. More people out and more vehicles on the road.

I don’t think Briggate being pedestrianised is the problem. If an appropriate route could be found to run in it, I would support it

The biggest problems that I find are:

The amount of general traffic allowed into Leeds city centre. Most of it should be banned
The inner loop being one way, which means that most bus routes only have one option on that side of town
Complete lack of bus priority across many junctions particularly when bus routes reach the inner ring road/motorway.

 

[_toommm_]

I live in Headingley and in theory we have 15-20 buses per hour off the top of my head going up Otley Road. Of course, this rarely happens in practice, and last Saturday, I was waiting half an hour for a bus to town.

 

[Caboose Class]

Same with Coastliner. A bus to the Coast every 30 minutes? On yer bike! They just can't get the drivers - or so I was told.

 

[thejuggler]

As a resident of Leeds it is now the case it doesn't matter what day you are out and about, on certain routes traffic is always heavy and this can be regardless of the time of day.

I was out at 10am yesterday on the outer ring road and there were queues longer than I have experienced at 8am on a Monday morning. Its often down to roadworks, but nothing yesterday, just really heavy traffic.

First Leeds day fare won't cover Bradford, because Bradford isn't part of Leeds!

 

[peterblue]

First Leeds day fare won't cover Bradford, because Bradford isn't part of Leeds!

But Wetherby and Otley are?

Ticket boundaries are often nonsensical and arbitrary.

Quite a mystery how some companies expect the ordinary passenger to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all their tickets and their respective zonal boundaries!

 

[pdq]

But Wetherby and Otley are?

Ticket boundaries are often nonsensical and arbitrary.

Quite a mystery how some companies expect the ordinary passenger to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all their tickets and their respective zonal boundaries!

In this case it's the local authority boundary. From Wikipedia:

The City of Leeds is a city and metropolitan borough in West Yorkshire, England. The metropolitan borough includes the administrative centre of Leeds and the towns of Farsley, Garforth, Guiseley, Horsforth, Morley, Otley, Pudsey, Rothwell, Wetherby and Yeadon.[4]

 

[Andyh82]

But Wetherby and Otley are?

Ticket boundaries are often nonsensical and arbitrary.

Quite a mystery how some companies expect the ordinary passenger to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all their tickets and their respective zonal boundaries!

Err Wetherby and Otley are part of Leeds

 

[Deerfold]

Welcome to Leeds. People are very frustrated and it is unlikely to get better for a good few months.

Saturdays are busy in Leeds. More people out and more vehicles on the road.

I don’t think Briggate being pedestrianised is the problem. If an appropriate route could be found to run in it, I would support it

The biggest problems that I find are:

The amount of general traffic allowed into Leeds city centre. Most of it should be banned
The inner loop being one way, which means that most bus routes only have one option on that side of town
Complete lack of bus priority across many junctions particularly when bus routes reach the inner ring road/motorway.

A couple of years ago, we used a family Dayrover for a trip to Leeds, midweek in school holidays. We then decided to pop to Bradford. The ticket isn't valid in the evening peak on trains so I thought we'd get an X6.

It spent 45 minutes on the Headrow, about the time it's supposed to cover the whole route.

 

[Andyh82]

Doesn’t help on Saturdays that there is often a protest about something at some stage which then screws up the traffic and the service for the rest of the day

There doesn’t seem to be some sort of urban traffic control controlling the traffic lights in these situations, so you still get lights going green when nothing can move, then going red when they could. It’s easier for the council to just slate FirstBus for shocking reliability and demand the buses were brought into public control than trying to solve the problem.

 

[jonesy3001]

I live on otley, if I want to go to Leeds I get a £4.70 daysaver on the X84 or up to guiseley on the 34 but if I want to travel to ilkley on the same bus it's £5.20 has that covers west yorkshire.
But it's quicker to get a bus to menston then northern train to bradford forster square station.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

But Wetherby and Otley are?

Ticket boundaries are often nonsensical and arbitrary.

Quite a mystery how some companies expect the ordinary passenger to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all their tickets and their respective zonal boundaries!

Most people in West Yorkshire simply ask for a Stagecoach ticket on a First service anyway (and then get fustrated when they try and use it on an Arriva service, which does happen on occations). Where as with me I'll use the proper name and purchase a FirstDay Halifax & Huddersfield / FirstDay West Yorkshire and ensure that I make it worthwhile.

If its various operators then it'll be the multi-operator Metro DayRover (not as good as the Wiltshire DayRover that allows you to travel to Bath, Frome, Southampton and Hungerford) but it works out cheaper and more flexible than sticking with one operator.


I were thinking the other day as to why the West Yorkshire metro-mayor didn't introduce MetroDay Calderdale, MetroDay Kirklees, MetroDay Leeds, MetroDay Bradford and MetroDay Wakefield which would allow more local multi operator journey's to be made whilst charging the same amount of a countywide one.

OK, the idea is you can spend the same amount of cash on a local one or you can get better value by getting the countywide one. However it would need to be promoted in a way that its replacing the FirstDay and the Arriva Saver tickets - luring those into being more flexible and getting whatever bus turns up to whisk them to their destination.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Stagecoach barely exists in West Yorkshire, so I find it hard to believe that many people would ask for a Stagecoach ticket by default on a non-Stagecoach bus.

As for our erstwhile mayor, so far she hasn't really shown her teeth when it comes to standing up to the operators. Pledges Vagaries about a future rapid transit system is just about all we've had so far.

 

[Deerfold]

If its various operators then it'll be the multi-operator Metro DayRover (not as good as the Wiltshire DayRover that allows you to travel to Bath, Frome, Southampton and Hungerford) but it works out cheaper and more flexible than sticking with one operator.

I were thinking the other day as to why the West Yorkshire metro-mayor didn't introduce MetroDay Calderdale, MetroDay Kirklees, MetroDay Leeds, MetroDay Bradford and MetroDay Wakefield which would allow more local multi operator journey's to be made whilst charging the same amount of a countywide one.

Probably because she currently has almost no say in ticketing. Tickets in West Yorkshire are managed by a company owned by the bus and train operators and Metro - Metro get a single vote on issues, and are are easily outvoted if bus operators want something else.

Who owns, promotes and manages MCard?

This is only likely to change in the near future if franchising is introduced in West Yorkshire.

The tickets haven't been called "MetroDay" or 'DayRover" for a couple of years - they've been DaySavers.

Daysavers and Family ticket prices | Metro

ticketsandpasses.wymetro.com

Countywide Bus Only Tickets

WY DaySaver Bus: £5.50 - Purchase via the MCard Mobile App, load onto a Pink MCard or purchase on-board the bus.

1 MCard DaySaver: £5.50
MCard DaySaver tickets, multiples of 3: £15.90
MCard DaySaver tickets, multiples of 5: £26.00
MCard DaySaver tickets, multiples of 10: £50.00

How to load tickets to your Pink MCard.

Weekender: £8.50 buy on the bus for unlimited bus travel from 6pm on Fridays until midnight on Sundays on any bus, anywhere in West Yorkshire

MyDay: £2.50 - the half-fare day ticket for young people aged between 5 and 18 - all day, any bus. Purchase via the MCard Mobile App, load onto an Under 19 PhotoCard or purchase on-board the bus. Find out more here.

Train and Countywide Bus tickets

WY DaySaver Bus and Train (Off-Peak): £9.20 - Purchase via the MCard Mobile App or from a Bus Station Travel Centre or a Rail Station ticket office. Enjoy unlimited off-peak bus and train travel anywhere in West Yorkshire.

WY DaySaver Bus and Train (Peak): Purchase via the MCard Mobile App only. Enjoy unlimited peak travel on any bus and any train (within specified zones) anywhere in West Yorkshire.

Zones 1-3: £11.40

Zones 1-4: £13.00

Zones 1-5: £14.20

Zones 2-5: £11.20

WY Group DaySaver: £24.20 - Purchase via the MCard Mobile App or from a Bus Station Travel Centre or a Rail Station ticket office. Groups of up to five people (either adults or concessionaries) can enjoy unlimited off-peak bus and train travel anywhere in West Yorkshire.

WY Family DaySaver: £13.70 - Purchase via the MCard Mobile App or from a Bus Station Travel Centre or Rail Station ticket office. Families, of up to two adults with three concessionary travellers or one adult with up to four concessionary travellers, can enjoy unlimited off-peak bus and train travel anywhere in West Yorkshire.

Train only tickets

WY DaySaver Train: £8.30 from a Rail Station ticket office. Enjoy unlimited off-peak train travel across West Yorkshire.

WY DaySaver Concessionary Train: £4.15 from a Rail Station ticket office. Enjoy unlimited off-peak train travel across West Yorkshire.

Off-Peak Countywide Bus and Train tickets are valid on any bus from 0930 and on any train from 0930 to 1601, and from 1830, Monday to Friday, and all day at weekends and public holidays.

WY DaySaver Bus and Train (Peak) and WY DaySaver Bus tickets valid at any time of the day.

You can use your day tickets to travel by bus or train to destinations beyond West Yorkshire by paying the extra fare from the driver or at the booking office before boarding whenever possible.

These great tickets are all about jumping on and off any bus or train in West Yorkshire. If you think you'll only be using one company's bus or train service then there may be cheaper options, so don't forget to check them out!

Check to see which West Yorkshire Bus Operator is best for you.

 

[Andyh82]

Stagecoach barely exists in West Yorkshire, so I find it hard to believe that many people would ask for a Stagecoach ticket by default on a non-Stagecoach bus.

I think he’s basically meaning that most people ask for a DayRider, this being the name a FirstDay originally had when they were introduced in the 1990s

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I think he’s basically meaning that most people ask for a DayRider, this being the name a FirstDay originally had when they were introduced in the 1990s

Yes, this is what I mean by "asking for Stagecoach ticket on a First service". Not only it holds up and delays the bus if a new driver is on the route or has been transfered from another depot which may not be within West Yorkshire as they can only go off what's on the machine. In the past I've had two drivers on two seperate routes; one was from Colchester and the other from Worcester (as they said it to me) and both were covering at both Halifax and Hunslet depots and the ticket I wanted they had to look for it in the machine, but with my guidance they managed to find it quickly as I knew the name of it and the fare.

On one other occation, a woman once demaded one from the driver on what was the Bowers service 61 to Buxton (they'd come over on the 951 from Huddersfield), the driver stated "if you want a day rider you'll have to purchase it from the Stagecoach 236 or 237 as we don't sell them", in the end they settled for the £6.50 return. I wonder what the reaction would be if they were told "we only sell singles and returns"?

I'm sure Squarepeg, Connextions and TLC Travel only sell singles and returns and the Metro range of products.

 

[175mph]

I was surprised to find out just how far the Leeds 'Plusbus' validity extended to when I needed to travel to Leeds in September last year, then catch a bus to an outer suburbs area.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was surprised to find out just how far the Leeds 'Plusbus' validity extended to when I needed to travel to Leeds in September last year, then catch a bus to an outer suburbs area.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Plusbus is particularly good value in PTE areas as it covers the whole area. Certainly better than in some non-PTE areas, where you can barely get out of town (Mansfield springs to mind, it doesn't or didn't cover Sutton-in-Ashfield, which doesn't have its own Plusbus area).

 

[Deerfold]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Plusbus is particularly good value in PTE areas as it covers the whole area. Certainly better than in some non-PTE areas, where you can barely get out of town (Mansfield springs to mind, it doesn't or didn't cover Sutton-in-Ashfield, which doesn't have its own Plusbus area).

It does - it covers the whole of West Yorkshire, Bradford, Leeds, Wakefield, Calderdale and Kirklees. Though that used to be more obvious as they used to say West Yorkshire on them.

Mansfield does currently cover Sutton-in-Ashfield and did 5 years ago - I visited my cousin in Huthwaite and then went to a gig in Sutton. It may not always have done.

 

[_toommm_]

It does - it covers the whole of West Yorkshire, Bradford, Leeds, Wakefield, Calderdale and Kirklees. Though that used to be more obvious as they used to say West Yorkshire on them.

Mansfield does currently cover Sutton-in-Ashfield and did 5 years ago - I visited my cousin in Huthwaite and then went to a gig in Sutton. It may not always have done.

Same with Plusbus Barnsley/Doncaster/Rotherham/Sheffield (pick your poison) being valid across the whole of South Yorkshire, much to the surprise of bus drivers.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Mansfield does currently cover Sutton-in-Ashfield and did 5 years ago - I visited my cousin in Huthwaite and then went to a gig in Sutton. It may not always have done.

I think I'd misremembered- it was Alfreton (station) that annoyed me previously. Can't recall if it was because it didn't have a Plusbus, or because it had one that didn't cover Sutton.

EDIT: Apologies for the off-topic. Would it be worth having a separate thread for Plusbus validity?

 

[Deerfold]

I think I'd misremembered- it was Alfreton (station) that annoyed me previously. Can't recall if it was because it didn't have a Plusbus, or because it had one that didn't cover Sutton.

Alfreton doesn't have one - normally my easiest way to Sutton would involve a train to Alfreton and a 9.1/9.3 but then I was coming from London.

What is annoying in PTEs is that many stations have been removed - so you can no longer buy a ticket to Hebden Bridge with Plusbus (though if coming from Manchester you can buy a more expensive one to Halifax and then use the local buses). Being buyable from Leeds suburban stations might make them more useful.

 

[GusB]

EDIT: Apologies for the off-topic. Would it be worth having a separate thread for Plusbus validity?

It's a bit of a grey area, as they're technically rail tickets with added bus validity. There have been a few queries about Plusbus tickets in the Fares Advice section before, but feel free to set one up here in the meantime; if needs be it can be moved to Fares Advice with a permanent link so that it's still accessible from the Buses & Coaches section.