deltic
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Working timetables from the 50s and 60s often mention that military personnel were allowed to travel on various non passenger services - mainly parcel and newspaper trains
Drat, and thanks…Ray Bradbury
Bit different indeed in the US; the railroads do their own policing and the local forces don't pay any real attention when on railway property, even in the couple of places where you are still likely to encounter them, like Omaha, Nebraska, assembly point for many Union Pacific westbound runs. It may surprise you that it's a hobo tradition not to break any local civil laws, or become a nuisance.Going back to what I presume is the intention of the original question. One of the differences in this country is that we did not have the long hauls that were common in America: anyone hitching a ride was likely to only get a short distance before being found, after which there was a far greater risk of coming into the hands of the local constabulary.
So did railways in the UK until the BTP was split off with the abolishment of the Transport Commission in the sixties. Geography is probably the primary cause of the differing incidences of "freighthopping" between the US and Europe.Bit different indeed in the US; the railroads do their own policing
Were there ever any postal trains where the public were officially allowed to travel?
Thanks
I recall hearing tales of people riding one or two nightly services which basically performed some kind of circular zig-zaggy tour of the southern region...?
Thanks
I recall hearing tales of people riding one or two nightly services which basically performed some kind of circular zig-zaggy tour of the southern region...?
Thanks for this. As you say, passenger-rated but non-passenger traffic - noted in some contexts IIRC as a "perishable train". It seems improbable that passengers could ever have found themselves on an express freight consisting of milk tanks."Milk Trains" were a general public euphemism for late/overnight/slow/all stations/tedious trains, which came from times when the churns from twice-daily milking were picked up along rural lines. The expression lasted longer than such services for handling milk, but these had often been timetabled passenger services, just with a van attached - or, I often suspect, never handled milk at all.
Given the general public's normal complete incomprehension about the overall milk business, getting it wrong about the rail element is only to be expected.
Milk was "passenger rated" traffic, like mail and newsprint, as opposed to general freight for coal etc.
The Hemyock branch near Tiverton ran most of the passenger service in the timetable as mixed trains with bulk milk tankers. which were all assembled at Tiverton Junction into an express milk (only) train for London. The lethargic timings on the branch allowed for shunting milk tanks en route, out of the creamery and onto the train. The passenger service lasted as long as it did, to about 1964, because for quite a well-developed valley with multiple bulk creameries there was no bus service. We have discussed the line in the past here. I believe another GWR odd branch, from Whitland to Cardigan, was the same.Thanks for this. As you say, passenger-rated but non-passenger traffic - noted in some contexts IIRC as a "perishable train". It seems improbable that passengers could ever have found themselves on an express freight consisting of milk tanks.
Carmarthen-Aberystwyth was another. I once travelled on a train which had 8 milk tanks behind the engine with just two coaches on the rear. The tanks were shunted off at Pont Llanio.The Hemyock branch near Tiverton ran most of the passenger service in the timetable as mixed trains with bulk milk tankers. which were all assembled at Tiverton Junction into an express milk (only) train for London. The lethargic timings on the branch allowed for shunting milk tanks en route, out of the creamery and onto the train. The passenger service lasted as long as it did, to about 1964, because for quite a well-developed valley with multiple bulk creameries there was no bus service. We have discussed the line in the past here. I believe another GWR odd branch, from Whitland to Cardigan, was the same.
News traffic was almost entirely from London and Manchester, where the printing presses were located. Most newspapers would have separate London and Northern editions. The Scottish newspapers were presumably printed in Glasgow or Edinburgh?A few have mentioned the newspaper trains. Didn't they have official seated coaches and were advertised in the public timetables? Often with very circuitous routes though?
Yes. The "Haughley Mails", between Liverpool Street and Peterborough via Ipswich, conveyed a TPO, and were advertised to passengers until 1980. The 1844 Norwich-Liverpool Street was another advertised passenger train with a TPO. Some of the Kings Cross-Edinburgh overnight trains also had TPOs.Were there ever any postal trains where the public were officially allowed to travel? I know it was possible to lock the end gangway doors, and indeed some mail carriages had offset end gangway doors..
1S81 had a TPO on Mondays to Fridays, but not Saturdays. The TPO went forward from Perth to Aberdeen, as an unadvertised train, at 0105. 1S81 was the descendant of the 1335 Euston-Perth from steam days. Going the other way was there an unadvertised TPO out of Aberdeen at about 1545?A train I used regularly in the 1980s (which I believe was a long-running service - There are photos of the working in this month's [September 2023] British Railways Illustrated Magazine in 1968) was 1S81 2050 Carlisle-Perth, which consisted of two Postal vehicles and two passenger coaches.
Ray BradburyIllegal reading has me in mind of Fahrenheit 451 by Kurt Vonnegut.
In addition to the examples already given:A few have mentioned the newspaper trains. Didn't they have official seated coaches and were advertised in the public timetables? Often with very circuitous routes though?
And regarding postal and parcels trains - it's not just the risk of a gang waiting trackside to hold it up, but the person riding could easily tamper with the mail whilst in transit.
Some (non-TPO) postal trains, right until the end, did have a couple of seating bays in one carriage for postal staff who travelled to sort the (sealed) bags for different locations whilst on the move. For instance in Reading in '92, two colleagues travelled as passengers on a service train to Birmingham in the afternoon, returning on the Crewe-Dover PPT.
Were there ever any postal trains where the public were officially allowed to travel? I know it was possible to lock the end gangway doors, and indeed some mail carriages had offset end gangway doors..