Rights when rebooking disrupted London - Paris - Milan return journey in October

[dmncf]

A few months ago I booked a return journey London - Paris - Milan for me, my partner and two young children which will be in October. But today I received an email from SNCF stating "Your train 9251 on 23/10 to MILANO P GARIBALDI has been cancelled because of track obstructed. We advise you to contact your travel agent or your original selling point for the terms and conditions for exchanges and refunds." I have now seen the following news article, based on which I assume that my return journey (on Trenitalia) will also be cancelled: https://www.railjournal.com/news/trenitalia-milan-paris-service-to-remain-suspended-until-november/

I have paid for a hotel for five nights in Milan. I want to get to my destination; I don't want a refund. What are my rights? The disrupted legs of my journey were purchased from The Trainline - please see details below. Are The Trainline likely to be easy to contact / helpful / competent? I believe I may also have some rights due to some of the operators involved (Eurostar and TGV, but not Trenitalia?) being in an alliance and offering flexibility during disruption? I also have travel insurance. Thank you for any advice you can give!

Mon 23 Oct:
Purchased from Eurostar:
London St Pancras International 07:01
Paris Gare du Nord 10:27
Purchased from The Trainline:
Paris Gare de Lyon 12:46 (TGV inOui train)
Milan 19:49

Sat 28 Oct:
Purchased from The Trainline:
Milan 06:25 (Trenitalia train)
Paris Gare de Lyon 13:22
Purchased from Eurostar:
Paris Gare du Nord 19:13
London St Pancras International 20:30

 

[Welby]

You should contact Trainline for advice, as to whether they are competent is another matter, according to previous comments. You will also need to contact Eurostar, but I would wait until you have contacted Trainline, to see what trains that they book you on.

 

[Stompehh]

I was caught up in this on Trenitalia. There has been a lot of discussion about it on Twitter, but no one has been able to get anything more than a refund - neither SNCF nor Trenitalia are rebooking on alternative routes.

We ended up shelling out a lot of money for the alternative via Zurich, since it was only cancelled a few days before our travel.

For what it's worth, the alternative route via Zurich is only about an hour longer and is rather lovely. As the Gotthard tunnel is also closed, trains are going via the Gotthard panoramic line which has some spectacular views. This route involves a very short change at Zurich, but you can generally rely on Swiss rail to accommodate that nicely.

 

[Haywain]

The Man in Seat 61 has covered this on his 'X' (formerly Twitter) account and I think he mentioned rebooking as the only option. His website lists a couple of alternative routes:

• Alternative routes: Paris-Geneva then Geneva-Milan; Paris-Basel then Basel-Milan; Paris-Zurich then Zurich-Milan (the Gotthard Base Tunnel is blocked by a freight train derailment until January 2024 so Zurich-Milan trains are taking an extra hour, diverted over the old scenic Gotthard line). You could also go Paris-Nice-Ventimiglia-Genoa.

It's worth noting that the much vaunted PRO rights and obligations don't seem to count for anything much in the EU, where your protection looks very poor compared to the UK.

 

[MrJeeves]

It's worth noting that the much vaunted PRO rights and obligations don't seem to count for anything much in the EU, where your protection looks very poor compared to the UK.

It amuses me that the EU regulations are even less well enforced within the EU than it is over here where the legislation was grandfathered into our law post-Brexit.

It helps that this was essentially the case pre-PRO as well, thanks to the NRCoT, but it astonishes me that the EU generally is so poor for this.

 

[urbophile]

I had a similar problem a few years ago after a landslip on the same line. I was meant to be travelling Genova-Torino-Paris and was only warned at very short notice that the train was not running. I re-routed from Genova to Milano on the previous day (fortunately I was able to stay overnight with a friend), and rebooked Milano-Bern-Paris, which reached Paris in time for my original Eurostar departure. But I can't say that Trenitalia were particularly helpful.

 

[Watershed]

Unfortunately, this will be difficult whichever which way you do it. Neither SNCF nor Trenitalia appear willing to engage with people regarding their obligations to re-route passengers "at the earliest opportunity" or "at a later date of [their] convenience", as is required under the EU Passenger Rights and Obligations Regulations (PRO). They seem to feel they can get away with palming people off with refunds; I suppose they are right from a practical perspective, as most people won't bother pursuing it any further.

You should contact SNCF and ask them to re-route you. They'll inevitably refuse or claim you're not entitled to anything more than a refund, and at that point you can rebook yourself and claim back the resultant costs from SNCF.

 

[dmncf]

Oh dear! Thanks everyone for your replies. I don't think our Milan holiday is likely to be possible. We're likely to make good use of our travel insurance!

 

[30907]

Oh dear! Thanks everyone for your replies. I don't think our Milan holiday is likely to be possible. We're likely to make good use of our travel insurance!

Provided you and the children can tolerate the increased journey time, and probably cost (less the excess on your insurance!), I think you are being pessimistic.
From Paris you have 2 main routes:
1. Paris Est (right next to Nord)-Strasbourg-Basel-Milano (2 routes through Switzerland). Or you can go from Gare de Lyon direct to Basel.
2. Paris Lyon-Geneva-Milan, possibly changing also at Brig in Switzerland.
Currently SNCF offer that at EUR99 for an adult, which I expect is rather more than you originally paid.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Oh dear! Thanks everyone for your replies. I don't think our Milan holiday is likely to be possible. We're likely to make good use of our travel insurance!

I wouldn't write it off yet. Easy Jet do a Paris CDG to Milan Malpensa flight for not much in Oct. I know flying is a hassle, but there are several flights a day and you could still take the Eurostar portion.

 

[dmncf]

Provided you and the children can tolerate the increased journey time, and probably cost (less the excess on your insurance!), I think you are being pessimistic.
From Paris you have 2 main routes:
1. Paris Est (right next to Nord)-Strasbourg-Basel-Milano (2 routes through Switzerland). Or you can go from Gare de Lyon direct to Basel.
2. Paris Lyon-Geneva-Milan, possibly changing also at Brig in Switzerland.
Currently SNCF offer that at EUR99 for an adult, which I expect is rather more than you originally paid.

I can see on Rail Europe for our travel dates:
Mon 23 Oct: Paris Lyon 14:18 - Geneva 17:30 - Geneva 18:39 - Milan Centrale 22:40 for £515.60
Sat 28 Oct: Milan Centrale 08:20 - Geneva 12:21 - Geneva 14:29 - Paris Lyon 17:42 for £517.30 (although in reality that might be okay for checking in for our Eurostar departing Paris Gare du Nord 19:13, I think it may be too tight such that if our TGV was delayed, Eurostar wouldn't honour their Railteam commitment to put us on the next train)
The excess on our travel insurance is £50 per person, so £200 total. I'm having to weigh up which option is least likely to leave us out of pocket. I think that any option has a risk of the travel insurer not paying up. I don't have any experience of claiming on travel insurance. I currently feel that we're less likely to end up out of pocket if we cancel the whole trip, rather than if we spend £1,032.90 taking the initiative buying alternative train tickets; I fear that the travel insurer might disagree with that course of action and/or that it might complicate our case.

I wouldn't write it off yet. Easy Jet do a Paris CDG to Milan Malpensa flight for not much in Oct. I know flying is a hassle, but there are several flights a day and you could still take the Eurostar portion.

My wife and I are not fans of flying. But I have been finding this situation stressful. Prompted by this suggestion, I have now booked EasyJet from London Luton to Milan. I figure that we'll get refunds for the Paris - Milan trains that won't run, and I think can amend the Eurostar London - Paris tickets to reuse them for a different holiday.
(I posted this second half of the post an hour after the first half, but the forum software has merged them into one post)

 

[AlastairFraser]

My wife and I are not fans of flying. But I have been finding this situation stressful. Prompted by this suggestion, I have now booked EasyJet from London Luton to Milan. I figure that we'll get refunds for the Paris - Milan trains that won't run, and I think can amend the Eurostar London - Paris tickets to reuse them for a different holiday.
(I posted this second half of the post an hour after the first half, but the forum software has merged them into one post)

Oh I'm glad you're still going, EJ are quite reliable in my experience, so hopefully you'll have a smooth journey and the refund off SNCF will cover the cost of your flights.
At least you might be able to take the new DART at Luton Airport, which is quite impressive.

 

[30907]

Too late now, but in case it helps others:

I can see on Rail Europe for our travel dates:
Mon 23 Oct: Paris Lyon 14:18 - Geneva 17:30 - Geneva 18:39 - Milan Centrale 22:40 for £515.60

The lower fare on the SNCF used the same TGV to Bellegarde, then a local train, then the same EC. It was some sort of promotional fare..
A variant on split ticketing which works for all the Swiss routes; I was impressed that SNCF offered it.

Sat 28 Oct: Milan Centrale 08:20 - Geneva 12:21 - Geneva 14:29 - Paris Lyon 17:42 for £517.30 (although in reality that might be okay for checking in for our Eurostar departing Paris Gare du Nord 19:13, I think it may be too tight)

It's decidedly tight as well as a poor routing!

The SNCF website offered me return fares of EUR672 just now (2A, 2 under 12).

 

[dmncf]

Too late now, but in case it helps others:

The lower fare on the SNCF used the same TGV to Bellegarde, then a local train, then the same EC. It was some sort of promotional fare..
A variant on split ticketing which works for all the Swiss routes; I was impressed that SNCF offered it.

It's decidedly tight as well as a poor routing!

The SNCF website offered me return fares of EUR672 just now (2A, 2 under 12).

Thanks very much for your efforts. I wasn't aware that the SNCF website might offer better routing and better prices, so I'll definitely try it for future trips.

I just phoned The Trainline to request the refund for my Paris - Milan and Milan - Paris tickets. They're not going to refund the £14.79 booking fee for the two bookings they made for me. They say that they're separate from the train operators and they delivered their part of the service (i.e. making two bookings) successfully! Wow!

 

[AlastairFraser]

Thanks very much for your efforts. I wasn't aware that the SNCF website might offer better routing and better prices, so I'll definitely try it for future trips.

I just phoned The Trainline to request the refund for my Paris - Milan and Milan - Paris tickets. They're not going to refund the £14.79 booking fee for the two bookings they made for me. They say that they're separate from the train operators and they delivered their part of the service (i.e. making two bookings) successfully! Wow!

Charge back through your card issuer.

 

[30907]

Thanks very much for your efforts. I wasn't aware that the SNCF website might offer better routing and better prices, so I'll definitely try it for future trips.

No problem - I was interested, having been caught up in this myself (but using Interrail so only a few Euros out of pocket).

As I say, I was surprised to find the SNCF option - which cut a good EUR100 offcthe fare - but their site also has he advantage of letting you choose your exact seats.

I suspect Trainline etc default to offering the most straightforward trips, which is understandable.

 

[dmncf]

Charge back through your card issuer.

Just one more update for this thread:
I requested a charge back through my credit card issuer in respect of the £14.79 booking fee that Trainline had refused to refund. My credit card issuer made the charge back, despite it being over 120 days since I first bought the tickets - in my request I explained that the problem with the purchase had arisen much more recently. It has now been over a month since the charge back, and Trainline has not disputed it, i.e. the charge back has been successful.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Just one more update for this thread:
I requested a charge back through my credit card issuer in respect of the £14.79 booking fee that Trainline had refused to refund. My credit card issuer made the charge back, despite it being over 120 days since I first bought the tickets - in my request I explained that the problem with the purchase had arisen much more recently. It has now been over a month since the charge back, and Trainline has not disputed it, i.e. the charge back has been successful.

Success! I hope you enjoyed your trip.