RMT rejects latest offer from both Network Rail and RDG (TOCs)

[STINT47]

Thr BBC are reporting that the RMT have rejected the latest offer from the RDG and Network Rail. It looks like the latest proposal has been rejected outright without bring put to a members vote.

I have to say that I'm disappointed but not that surprised by this. Looks like further strikes and disruption will continue fir st least the next few months.

Rail strikes: RMT union rejects new pay offer

The union calls the deals from both Network Rail and the train operating companies "dreadful".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Tezza1978]

I'm assuming that by the comments by them "seeking new talks with TOCs and Network Rail" that they will hopefully at least try and have a couple more days of talks before announcing yet more strikes.

Otherwise seems very odd not to put the offer to the membership.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Looks like they've rejected the Network rail part as well as the RDG

 

[John Bishop]

Can see a lot of RMT memberships being cancelled as a result of this from the mood I’m hearing amongst members!

 

[SJN]

I’m an Aslef member but I know that Mick Lynch has attended several very large meetings with as many members as possible in attendance. On my area there were 4 TOCS in attendance and the overall outcome was to reject the offer.

 

[Monty]

I'm assuming that by the comments by them "seeking new talks with TOCs and Network Rail" that they will hopefully at least try and have a couple more days of talks before announcing yet more strikes.

Otherwise seems very odd not to put the offer to the membership.

The local branches have reached out to us to ask for our views on the deal. Speaking as traincrew it's not an awful offer, however its a pretty bum deal for platform staff so can understand if there was pushback from station grades.

 

[SJN]

The local branches have reached out to us to ask for our views on the deal. Speaking as traincrew it's not an awful offer, however its a pretty bum deal for platform staff so can understand if there was pushback from station grades.

Well out train crew thought it was an awful offer and after reading the full proposals, I don’t blame them.

 

[Monty]

Well out train crew thought it was an awful offer and after reading the full proposals, I don’t blame them.

Varies from TOC to TOC, most of what they wanted in this offer we gave up for a reduction of hours last year.

 

[SJN]

Varies from TOC to TOC, most of what they wanted in this offer we gave up for a reduction of hours.

That’s the problem, some TOC’s would be giving up a lot for little in return and others have already sold it for bigger benefits in the past. I think the pay offer would have been ok but not all the conditions attached.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Irrelevant of the rights or wrongs on either side and how good or bad the offer is.

As someone in the industry struggling to get work done my only reaction is , Yay yet more instability, negativity and general I'll feeling to further drive down morale and my ability to do my job.

 

[Robertj21a]

That’s the problem, some TOC’s would be giving up a lot for little in return and others have already sold it for bigger benefits in the past. I think the pay offer would have been ok but not all the conditions attached.

Hasn't this been the key issue all along ? - the staff are ok with the money but don't want the changes that will pay for it!
This could go on for many more months if changes won't be accepted.

 

[Buffer stop]

That deal was never on for TOC's

 

[XIX7007177]

If it was no strings percentage increase it would be accepted no doubt. Government/RDG need to stop playing games with “reforms”, especially as half the problem with train unreliability is their daft management anyway not the workers.

 

[BPN2022]

What’s the chances of this being imposed?

 

[anthony1972]

Can see a lot of RMT memberships being cancelled as a result of this from the mood I’m hearing amongst members!

Hi John totally agree with you just be continuous further strikes and loosing money.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm assuming that by the comments by them "seeking new talks with TOCs and Network Rail"

Given that the talks had already been arranged before the announcement (which was issued to the press before the employers, as usual), I would take that with a large pinch of salt.

 

[RPI]

For my grade its literally a no strings pay offer!

 

[bazzarati]

I'm not surprised that the union has rejected them. Just concentrating on the Network Rail dispute, the company has been really naive. They know the members rejected the offer by ballot by two thirds, but rather than trying to sweeten the pot and end the dispute with it going to another vote what they actually did was tried to humiliate the RMT. They thought they could bully the RMT into accepting the same offer that they had recommended members to reject. A silly waste of time by NR. Now, there will be another round of strikes.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

-----continuous further strikes and loosing money.

I love the railway industry and really fear for its future. So sad.

 

[bazzarati]

Can see a lot of RMT memberships being cancelled as a result of this from the mood I’m hearing amongst members!

Well that's not likely to help. The only way the dispute ends is if there's a ballot in favour of accepting. If all the people that wanted to accept the offer quit, that leaves more strident members to knuckle down.

 

[Kite159]

Says it all that they didn't want to put it out to a general vote for a true balance. Afterall what someone might say in the heated bullpit of a branch meeting might not be what they actually think. They go with the flow in public to avoid being bullied.

But if the deal is accepted, Lynch won't earn so much from media appearance fees

 

[mcmad]

Given that the talks had already been arranged before the announcement (which was issued to the press before the employers, as usual), I would take that with a large pinch of salt.

I'm starting to think you're actually Tim in disguise

 

[thedbdiboy]

Let's hope there can be a negotiated way forward because if the strikes go on it isn't going to end well. This is the unfortunate side of the soundbite tendency:
The presentation of this as a privatisation issue when the deal has to be funded entirely from the public sector doesn't help, but that's the effect of spinning that there's somehow millions of pounds of profit lying around ready to be reallocated to a staff pay deal.
The railways are funded by public money. The presentation of management fees as 'profit' by the union is misleading because those management costs would still need to be paid if the management was in house - OK maybe a bit less but it won't even touch the sides of the industry funding black hole. If any money at all is found from the public purse for a better pay deal, rail staff will be way down the line behind NHS staff and teachers.

 

[John Bishop]

Well that's not likely to help. The only way the dispute ends is if there's a ballot in favour of accepting. If all the people that wanted to accept the offer quit, that leaves more strident members to knuckle down.

Yes but the members who are no longer in the union will be paid when they show up to work on a strike day. The more people who show up to work increases the chances of them able to run some sort of service on strike days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Disappointed it didn't go to a vote. I'd accept rejection by the staff but I think for the Union management, like for the Tories, it has become a class war.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm not surprised that the union has rejected them. Just concentrating on the Network Rail dispute, the company has been really naive. They know the members rejected the offer by ballot by two thirds, but rather than trying to sweeten the pot and end the dispute with it going to another vote what they actually did was tried to humiliate the RMT. They thought they could bully the RMT into accepting the same offer that they had recommended members to reject. A silly waste of time by NR. Now, there will be another round of strikes.

Your definition of bullying is rather different to mine. AIUI The revised offer was put to RMT at their request, and on the understanding from them, that it needed to be changed slightly so that it could be put to referendum again.

I'm starting to think you're actually Tim in disguise

That’s made me laugh! (I’m not Tim, for the avoidance of doubt. He’s a bit busy at present, whereas I’m off).

Let's hope there can be a negotiated way forward because if the strikes go on it isn't going to end well.

There’s been negotiations going on for well over a year. Some informal, and some formal. For TOCs the formal side only started recently, but informal discussions started a long, long time before that. It’s fairly clear from the latest RMT comms that they are not interested in negotiations. And that suggests the last year has been a waste of time, and of course a huge waste of money for those who have been on strike.

This is not going to end well.

 

[Moonshot]

Yes but the members who are no longer in the union will be paid when they show up to work on a strike day. The more people who show up to work increases the chances of them able to run some sort of service on strike days.

That minimum service level legislation currently going through parliament would achieve that as well..... though I have no idea how far along that is

 

[Buffer stop]

The TSSA vote is going to members.

 

[jon0844]

But if the deal is accepted, Lynch won't earn so much from media appearance fees

People can be offered as little as £35 to appear on a news channel, and in most cases Mick Lynch is merely interviewed when he's out, so I doubt he's trying to make a living from media appearances.

 

[bazzarati]

Disappointed it didn't go to a vote. I'd accept rejection by the staff but I think for the Union management, like for the Tories, it has become a class war.

My major frustration with the company is that there are maintenance people who have been with the company for decades that are now having new contracts with new Ts&Cs imposed upon them. If the company can do that to whatever proportion of the company maintenance is, why can't they do it to anyone, including signallers? Like P&O. That's an additional reason why I personally will continue to strike because I think it sets a really bad precedent that the company can rip up contracts when it suits. When I went to the union branch meeting a week last Tuesday there were maintenance people on the brink of tears that I had to console. We can't allow them to be lambs to the slaughter. We have to defend them because if the company turns on us, who will be there to defend us?