RMT reporting that Merseyrail have suspended off peak ticket sales from Liverpool Central/Moorfields - Aintree for Grand National weekend.

[8J]

12 April 2024

RMT Press Office:

Rail union, RMT has condemned train operator Merseyrail for jacking up their prices by 35% during the Aintree Grand National festival.

Merseyrail is one of the wealthiest operators of trains in Britain, recently paying out dividends of £14.5 million.
Yet they have failed to insource cleaners on their stations despite the fact that would have only cost the company £100,000.
RMT general secretary, Mick Lynch said: “The greed of Merseyrail knows no bounds. They are ripping off attendees of the Grand National in Aintree over the next few days to enrich their shareholders.
“At the same time, they are allowing the super exploitation of cleaners on the stations they run by refusing to bring them in house and pay them decent pay and conditions.
“RMT wants to bring in all contracted out cleaners on the rail network as they are an integral part of the workforce and should be treated the same as every other rail worker.”

END

Notes:

Standard return tickets from Liverpool Central & Moorfields have been withdrawn for festival goers.

Originally it was £4.45 for a return and has now increased to £6.00 for a special event ticket, a 35% increase.

Link to RMT website

Surely this is not right. How can regular off peak return fares be "suspended" for an event and the fare increased. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has purchased one of these tickets. Maybe one for the RailUkForums Twitter account to publicise and contact the local press about.

 

[uglymonkey]

They want to make as much money as possible I assume, and depress demand?

 

[Thirteen]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Merseyrail wasn't a private company so no shareholders?

 

[8J]

They want to make as much money as possible I assume, and depress demand?

I'd understand if a TOC suspended cheap advance purchase tickets for a large event like the Grand National, but these are standard walk up fares.

What about the Merseyrail area C DaySaver which would cover unlimited travel after 09:30 for £4.45?

 

[Haywain]

Link to RMT website

Surely this is not right. How can regular off peak return fares be "suspended" for an event and the fare increased. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has purchased one of these tickets. Maybe one for the RailUkForums Twitter account to publicise and contact the local press about.

Do Merseyrail have Off Peak fares? Perhaps this is ill informed nonsense from the RMT, which would be disappointing.

 

[8J]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Merseyrail wasn't a private company so no shareholders?

You are incorrect. They are operated by Transport UK as a concession, similar, but not identical, to how Arriva runs London Overground.

Do Merseyrail have Off Peak fares? Perhaps this is ill informed nonsense from the RMT, which would be disappointing.

Yes - they have the Day Saver ticket which is enables unlimited off peak travel in a particular area.

The Anytime return from Liverpool Central/Moorfields is £4.60 which is £1.40 cheaper than this "Special Event" ticket.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Merseyrail has done this before.

Again, I think the underlying intention is genuine - but it's implementation is poor with no regard to the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

Because of the volume of customers, they essentially create a special One Day Ranger that is an all-zones ticket for £6 flat fare - with the morning peak restrictions abolished. They then preprint thousands of these and distribute them across the ticket offices and revenue protection staff to speed up ticket sales.

Given that Merseytravel the body awarding the concession is happy with this approach, I doubt there is too much that can be done about it. There's no legal entitlement to be sold any ticket in the first place. As long as people with existing tickets aren't penalised (which they're not) - I don't think there's really any recourse available to any customer who is "overcharged".

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

I313ME NRTH LINE EVT

 

[Dai Corner]

According to https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=LVC&dest=AIN&period=20240401 the Anytime Day Return from Liverpool Central or Moorfields is £4.60, the single is £4.40 and there are no off peak fares.

Does the additional revenue accrue to the concessionaire's bottom line or to the taxpayer?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

According to https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=LVC&dest=AIN&period=20240401 the Anytime Day Return from Liverpool Central or Moorfields is £4.60, the single is £4.40 and there are no off peak fares.

Does the additional revenue accrue to the concessionaire's bottom line or to the taxpayer?

Ordinarily, the Off Peak £4.45 fare with a Y9 restriction should be sold for the Liverpool area to Aintree, but this is a special Off Peak Day Saver ticket, not a CDR.

Customers are actually paying £6 for a special events ranger ticket, albeit it has the same zonal validity as another ranger ticket costing £5.95 (and that one has a morning peak restriction).

Winners are people travelling before 09:30 from places like Chester, Southport, Ellesmere Port. Losers are the ones closer to Aintree.

 

[richardderby]

According to https://www.brfares.com/!fares?orig=LVC&dest=AIN&period=20240401 the Anytime Day Return from Liverpool Central or Moorfields is £4.60, the single is £4.40 and there are no off peak fares.

Does the additional revenue accrue to the concessionaire's bottom line or to the taxpayer?

no doubt the DFT will be getting the extra revenue. gone are the days of cheap advances and regular sales on the railway to fill trains, these days its all about cash.
the sooner we have a more public transport focussed Government the better..

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

no doubt the DFT will be getting the extra revenue. gone are the days of cheap advances and regular sales on the railway to fill trains, these days its all about cash.
the sooner we have a more public transport focussed Government the better..

The revenue goes to the concession owner, Merseytravel (part of Liverpool City Region) and run by LCR Mayor Steve Rotheram.
The Merseyrail setup is about as close as you can get to local government-owned and run under current legislation.
The concessionnaire (Serco-Transport UK), which runs the trains/stations as Merseyrail, has a contract until 2028 (a 25-year contract awarded in 2003).

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

no doubt the DFT will be getting the extra revenue. gone are the days of cheap advances and regular sales on the railway to fill trains, these days its all about cash.
the sooner we have a more public transport focussed Government the better..

DfT not involved here. Merseytravel, (the local transport body/concession manager) takes up the DfT roles and responsibilities. Merseyrail Electrics Limited is a private company who holds the franchise/concession for a few more years.

The revenue sharing arrangements are unique, especially post COVID. The concession is entitled to retain any revenue they generate (although a large proportion of that revenue is split with others, because they sell a lot of local multi-modal products).

Merseyrail don't pay anything to Merseytravel - it's the other way round, with Merseyrail being paid to run the concession, the bonus being any revenue that they can generate, they get to keep.

The revenue goes to the concession owner, Merseytravel (part of Liverpool City Region).
The Merseyrail setup is as close as you can get to local government-owned under current legislation.
The concessionnaire (Serco-Transport UK) which runs the trains/stations has a contract until 2028 (a 25-year contract awarded in 2003).

This isn't correct. Merseyrail keeps any revenue it brings in. Merseytravel gets some of it back through the sale of multi modal products, but they get nothing from the sale of a Merseyrail Day Saver, for example.

 

[M28361M]

Some complaints on Twitter about this. For example:-

@merseyrail why are your staff charging people for day riders £6 for going one stop! £48 for train tickets to go from aintree to orrell park! What is the logic there????

£6 for a ticket to Orrell Park (normal price £2.40) is sharp practice in the extreme. And the reply from Merseyrail is, I think, an all-time great. Apparently the extra cost is for “entertainment”(!)

Hi Leah, our colleagues can only offer day savers from our ticket stands at the racecourse. The cost includes the amount of production and entertainment we put on and the support we provide in ensuring customers get home safely. ^Claire

Seriously, how does this fit in with rules and regulations regarding tickets? Can Merseyrail unilaterally declare that the £6 ticket is the only one available?

 

[8J]

Some complaints on Twitter about this. For example:-

£6 for a ticket to Orrell Park (normal price £2.40) is sharp practice in the extreme. And the reply from Merseyrail is, I think, an all-time great. Apparently the extra cost is for “entertainment”(!)


Seriously, how does this fit in with rules and regulations regarding tickets? Can Merseyrail unilaterally declare that the £6 ticket is the only one available?

This is what they have been doing. I actually think the ORR should be informed of what they're doing.

 

[gray1404]

A customer should not be refunded any Anytime Day Return Liverpool to Aintree at £4.60 or an Area C Day Saver at £4.45 if they ask for one and it's after 9.30am on a weekday . Likewise if a customer simply asks for a return to Aintree they should be sold the cheapest of the above.

In short I see no situation whereby this £6 ticket should ever be sold for a journey between Liverpool and Aintree. So if staff are defaulting to the £6 ticket when it is not requested regardless of the fact cheaper options are available then is wrong.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Some complaints on Twitter about this. For example:-

£6 for a ticket to Orrell Park (normal price £2.40) is sharp practice in the extreme. And the reply from Merseyrail is, I think, an all-time great. Apparently the extra cost is for “entertainment”(!)


Seriously, how does this fit in with rules and regulations regarding tickets? Can Merseyrail unilaterally declare that the £6 ticket is the only one available?

If a customer doesn't have a ticket or contract beforehand, there is technically no right to be sold any ticket at all.

Whether their concession agreement allows them to do this is up to Merseytravel (who almost certainly do support this anyway as they're fairly useless) - but that's an internal issue between Merseyrail and Merseytravel.

I'm not, by any means, saying this is fair, or that it isn't bad practice. Except for the not insignificant number of customers who are actually saving a few pounds.

Merseyrail would counter and say that the sheer volume of customers requires a unique, consistent and simple solution such as a fixed, round number priced ticket to manage crowding and have acceptable queue times.

I think there's potentially an argument to be made with the ASA for false advertising (if they advertise their cheaper Day Saver anywhere) not being available. Merseyrail should really amend the Y9 restriction to prohibit travel on specific calendar days too, if this is the approach they're taking.

Normal SDS/SDR tickets being unavailable - I think this is extremely poor, but again, I can't see that there is any entitlement to be sold any ticket at all - so long as there's no discrimination, i.e. nobody can buy them.

 

[185]

Just another snippet from another ongoing thing. The PTE authorised a response stating "Merseyrail administer themselves, the PTE has no involvement."

Think this needs the grown ups to start managing their franchise as the local authority run PTE are as delinquent as the crooked operator.

 

[TUC]

There is a deeper underlying point here that those saying there is no right to be sold any particular ticket. I understand where they are coming from in contract law terms, but the requirements to publish rail fares must mean something. Otherwise, what would there be to stop any TOC from saying 'we've decided not to have any off-peak fares' tomorrow. Everyone must pay the Anytime fare?'

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

There is a deeper underlying point here that those saying there is no right to be sold any particular ticket. I understand where they are coming from in contract law terms, but the requirements to publish rail fares must mean something. Otherwise, what would there be to stop any TOC from saying 'we've decided not to have any off-peak fares' tomorrow. Everyone must pay the Anytime fare?'

There is likely nothing that the prospective customer could rely on.

However, the DfT recognises this could be a problem and handles it by placing contractual conditions within franchise agreements with operators so that they don't do things like that. The DfT could enforce those conditions against a franchise holder. Most of this is usually redacted / commercially sensitive for understandable reasons.

The issue you have here, is unique, is that Merseytravel, essentially replaces the DfT when it comes to Merseyrail. They don't seem to have the same concerns or conditions around this that would reign Merseyrail in, and indeed, I understand Merseytravel actually supports this practice.

There are broader issues around competition law / dominant market positions, but I think you'd struggle to make much of a case here given it is just for a handful of days per year around an extremely busy and chaotic event - and there is some reasonable justification that Merseyrail can rely on for doing this around managing crowds, queues etc - even if we don't like it. I doubt Merseyrail actually makes too much out of these higher fares either, because some customers will pay less, and their staffing/event costs will be astronomical for a few days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a deeper underlying point here that those saying there is no right to be sold any particular ticket. I understand where they are coming from in contract law terms, but the requirements to publish rail fares must mean something. Otherwise, what would there be to stop any TOC from saying 'we've decided not to have any off-peak fares' tomorrow. Everyone must pay the Anytime fare?'

Isn't there a certain red and white TOC that has just done exactly that?

 

[43096]

I’m really not seeing what the problem is here. Demand is high, so it’s not “off peak”, is it? Ergo peak fares are charged.

It’s pretty standard in most industries: how many cheap hotels are there available in the Aintree area this weekend? Simple laws of supply and demand.

 

[TUC]

Just been on the LNER app. It will sell me a Return from Liverpool Central to Aintree tomorrow for £4.60. I presume other TOC sites will too, so the best way forward would seem to be to buy online and bypass Merseyrail.

 

[Egg Centric]

Given that a pint of Guinness is £7.50 at Aintree this particular piece of price gouging pales into insignificance!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Just been on the LNER app. It will sell me a Return from Liverpool Central to Aintree tomorrow for £4.60. I presume other TOC sites will too, so the best way forward would seem to be to buy online and bypass Merseyrail.

Unless they've removed the fare or added a dated restriction like GWR and ScotRail do with groupsave, there's nothing to stop it being sold elsewhere, just remember to print your ToD before you travel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m really not seeing what the problem is here. Demand is high, so it’s not “off peak”, is it? Ergo peak fares are charged.

It's not the peak fare, though, it's a special fare which is higher (though offers more validity, whether that is of use depends on the individual) than the relevant Anytime Day Return from Liverpool.

 

[Speed Whiskers]

Perhaps the fare increase is to pay for the flip-flops.

Merseyrail staff will hand out flip-flops to anyone with sore feet after a long day at the event.

Extra Merseyrail trains running for Grand National

Merseyrail will run trains to Aintree every seven-and-a-half minutes.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Thirteen]

I'm not sure why the RMT are complaining though, it doesn't affect their members in any way.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm not sure why the RMT are complaining though, it doesn't affect their members in any way.

Ticket Office staff?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I'm not sure why the RMT are complaining though, it doesn't affect their members in any way.

Indeed!

I bet you if Merseyrail has said they'd put the revenue from the £6 fares to bringing the cleaners in-house, RMT would suddenly be all for it!

After having a think about this, I don't really have an issue with Merseyrail charging £6 over the next few days. It's still a very good value fare, like most of the ones Merseyrail set, and I think the overwhelming majority of people who buy one won't care or will actually think it's pretty good value. Race goers won't care less.

I suspect, like most others on here, the real issue is in the way this is all set up - it's amateurish. They could have set things up properly, changed the industry data as appropriate and briefed other TOCs. I really think it's incompetence and inexperience. They don't see a wider rail network beyond their boundaries, or the need to cooperate and participate in wider industry schemes.

Ticket Office staff?

They're trying to piggyback a campaign to bring their outsourced cleaners into Merseyrail proper on to this £6 ticket issue, claiming the "profits" from overcharging race goers could fund magically this....

 

[JonathanH]

I'm not sure why the RMT are complaining though, it doesn't affect their members in any way.

Maybe that is the problem - if higher fares are being charged, their members should be being paid more?