Rolling stock announcement regarding TPE (updated)

[CosherB]

Production of new DMUs has been curtailed due to environment/emmissions regulations. Small underfloor engines are not as efficient.

Have you heard of a company called MTU? lol

 

[47802]

Like those under all the bi-mode IEP/80x series recently ordered?
Actually, once the TP north route is wired in time for the next franchise, it will be interesting if LHCS continues.
There should be several more-economic EMU/bi-mode solutions available by then.

I would imagine they could order straight EMU's by then and use the 802's for the still off wires routes.

I'm still slightly bemused as to why they choose Loco Hauled, rather than a single fleet of 802's? was it delivery time? was running 802's on purely Diesel too expensive? or did the DFT give the nod that some 68's would be used regardless probably with 442's but then First went one better and proposed new LHCS thanks to some cheapo Spanish junk.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was lead time I believe.

Calling it "cheapo Spanish junk" is rather unfair.

 

[northwichcat]

I would imagine they could order straight EMU's by then and use the 802's for the still off wires sections.

If they use the 802s for not fully electrified routes and EMUs for the rest what will happen when Newcastle services are diverted due to engineering works?

I'm still slightly bemused as to why they choose Loco Hauled, rather than a single fleet of 802's? was it delivery time?

Yes that will have been a major factor. Future flexibility might also have been a factor - it's easier to lengthen loco-hauled rakes at a later date than it is with multiple unit formations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I doubt extra vehicles would be built, but they would certainly be easier to reform without wasted vehicles, as you could presumably just put a cab at both ends of some sets.

 

[47802]

If they use the 802s for not fully electrified routes and EMUs for the rest what will happen when Newcastle services are diverted due to engineering works?


.

Same as TPE on the West Coast probably and many other electric routes for that matter, Bus it or use an alternate TOC service, plus on a Sunday they might spare some 802 for the Newcastle route.

Personally I think there is some argument for Bi-mode trains just for diversion purposes, but I doubt many will be justified on that basis alone, as it is these days many TOC's make little more than a token effort with diversions when the diversion involves going off wires, even when they have some Diesel Trains.

 

[Mordac]

Did the 170s leave today?

 

[Bungle965]

Did the 170s leave today?

Friday was the last day of them in service I believe.
Sam

 

[Class 170101]

They were due to do railtours over parts of the TPE network at the weekend.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I would imagine they could order straight EMU's by then and use the 802's for the still off wires routes.

I'm still slightly bemused as to why they choose Loco Hauled, rather than a single fleet of 802's? was it delivery time? was running 802's on purely Diesel too expensive? or did the DFT give the nod that some 68's would be used regardless probably with 442's but then First went one better and proposed new LHCS thanks to some cheapo Spanish junk.

I'm sure TPE wanted the highlight of their new services in 2018 to be some repeatedly cast off old Southern units, rather than nice new coaching stock designed to spec.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Friday was the last day of them in service I believe.
Sam

They were due to do railtours over parts of the TPE network at the weekend.

I saw a pair at Doncaster running a regular service to Manchester Airport on Sunday evening while waiting for a connection.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

It was lead time I believe.

Calling it "cheapo Spanish junk" is rather unfair.

I did hear (no idea how accurate) that MTU are running at full capacity and couldn't supply the engines required for either more Hitachi stock or for additional CAF DMU stock, in the timescales required.

 

[Bungle965]

They were due to do railtours over parts of the TPE network at the weekend.

That was last weekend(9,10th July) , I was on it!
Sam

 

[Bletchleyite]

I did hear (no idea how accurate) that MTU are running at full capacity and couldn't supply the engines required for either more Hitachi stock or for additional CAF DMU stock, in the timescales required.

Interesting. Are MTU the only possible supplier? Could Cummins not do something?

 

[47802]

Interesting. Are MTU the only possible supplier? Could Cummins not do something?

Well maybe they might have something which would work on the CAF DMU's. but something with the power of those used on the AT300's and particularly getting it to fit given the need to slightly raise the floor on the AT300 for the MTU engine might be a lot more difficult.

 

[Bovverboy]

Originally Posted by Mordac
Did the 170s leave today?

Originally Posted by samgeorge965
Friday was the last day of them in service I believe.
Sam

They were due to do railtours over parts of the TPE network at the weekend.

Originally Posted by samgeorge965
That was last weekend(9,10th July) , I was on it!
Sam

I hope you were on the right tour, samgeorge965, the 170 tours were 2/3 July.

A double 170 was sent from Crofton to work the tours, so presumably all four TPE 170s were in use over the two days, probably the first time all four had been simultaneously in use since the TPE 170 fleet was reduced.

 

[DunfordBridge]

To me the logic would be driving first open with wheelchair space, a bay of Standard seating for accompanying passengers, and accessible bog at the inner end, then all the rest can be identical TSOs.

I think the drawback with that approach is that there would be a period of running with no first class accommodation as the driving carriages are going to be delivered last with double locomotive top and tailing during the interim period.

 

[Haydn1971]

I noticed today that Wikipedia has a page for the "Class 397" CAF EMUs - not seen this used anywhere else - cites an article dated 16 Jul by Phillip Haigh

 

[D365]

I noticed today that Wikipedia has a page for the "Class 397" CAF EMUs - not seen this used anywhere else - cites an article dated 16 Jul by Phillip Haigh

Wasn't this TOPS number put out a few pages back?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I noticed today that Wikipedia has a page for the "Class 397" CAF EMUs - not seen this used anywhere else - cites an article dated 16 Jul by Phillip Haigh

So we have classes 331 and 397 for two variants of Civity EMU from CAF, the only apparent difference being the top speed (100mph and 125mph respectively) and the interiors.
Not sure I see the numbering logic.
They also have to find class numbers for all the Stadler FLIRT variants for AEA.

 

[Haydn1971]

Seems like the 700 series is being reserved for larger fleets ? Will the 600 series ever get used ?

 

[MK Tom]

So we have classes 331 and 397 for two variants of Civity EMU from CAF, the only apparent difference being the top speed (100mph and 125mph respectively) and the interiors.
Not sure I see the numbering logic.
They also have to find class numbers for all the Stadler FLIRT variants for AEA.

The 397 is clearly a high-speed unit, with the 125mph top speed and a completely different streamlined front end to the regional 331 design. So it makes sense to put that with other high speed units in the 39x range to me.

Regarding the 600 series, that'd make sense for any large new DMU fleets perhaps?

 

[D365]

The 397 is clearly a high-speed unit, with the 125mph top speed and a completely different streamlined front end to the regional 331 design. So it makes sense to put that with other high speed units in the 39x range to me.

Aside from the Class 345, I thought (until recently) that all future fleets were going to be in the Class 600, 700 or 800 ranges.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Any news on when the MK3 wrakes start running, also what kind of a refurb will they have if any?

 

[WatcherZero]

The 397 is clearly a high-speed unit, with the 125mph top speed and a completely different streamlined front end to the regional 331 design. So it makes sense to put that with other high speed units in the 39x range to me.

Regarding the 600 series, that'd make sense for any large new DMU fleets perhaps?

The Sheffield tram trains were assigned 399 and only have a top speed of 100kmh.

Frankly after looking like there was going to be some order with the new number ranges its gone completely nonsensical again.

 

[childwallblues]

The Sheffield tram trains were assigned 399 and only have a top speed of 100kmh.

Frankly after looking like there was going to be some order with the new number ranges its gone completely nonsensical again.

I agree with you. Also the six digit carriage numbers for Class 387 are in the 421xxx-424xxx range, the 700s are in the 401xxx-412xxx range whilst Class 800 are in the 8xxxxx range. Nothing simple any more.