RJ
Established Member
I was given the heads up by ATOC last week that the route "TILBY EXCL FERRY" was being changed to TILBRY/GRAVESND this week. I forgot and so when I attempted to buy such a ticket at Canterbury West ticket office today, the clerk was confused until I told him I normally pay £2.80.
The change has happened overnight - tickets I bought today and over the last few days can be seen here.
In the meantime, I don't know what kind of operation Southeastern are running with their Independent Penalty Fares Appeal Service. They have implied in writing that they don't need to be competent in establishing the validity of a ticket in order to assess an appeal. It seems they need to defer to comrades within the industry to do this, as they don't actually appear to be able to interpret the NRCoC for themselves. In fact, have a read of the last letter they sent to me. I am neither impressed by their attitude towards ticketing disputes, nor fazed by what I consider to be a veiled threat contained in the preantepenultimate paragraph.
I have never heard of these people approving appeals on the basis of giving the benefit of the doubt. Southeastern continue to uphold the pretence that they have not been told that they are required to display any restrictions to permitted routes on tickets prior to enforcing them. This is contained in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement, specifically Schedule 24, Clause 13. I've also gone through the terms of their franchise and it says that tickets valid between London and Ashford (or Gravesend) via HS1 by the National Routeing Guide must be accepted as such, unless they are marked to show a not via CTRL restriction. It would be much easier for all concerned if they admitted that they do need to do this and be happy that a change has been put into place. For those not aware of the incident that occurred on the 1st April, I was given a Penalty Fare for using a Canterbury West to Tilbury Riverside ticket (with the eponymous route) via Stratford International, which is on the line of the shortest route between those stations.
It very much seems like the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. ATOC and c2C appear to share a common understanding that the intended route involved use of the Gravesend to Tilbury ferry, which is not coded into any of the journey planners or mentioned in any way, shape or form in the National Rail Timetable. Southeastern however have a completely different stance which involves enforcing a "Not Valid on HS1" restriction on it. They say it can be used on the classic lines into London Bridge, the Underground to West Ham then by train to Tilbury. They evidently have some sway, because the WebTiS journey planners now show this precise route when the "Via Tilbury but Not via Ferry" route filter is selected.
Recently, the exclusion for the Stratford Group was removed from the TVM at Canterbury West. Presumably something to do with Southeastern being told that the enforcement of that that restriction was illegitimate.
Ultimately, the new routing is beneficial to me and allows me to reduce the cost of a one way trip from Canterbury to St Pancras to less than £4, which I'm not going to complain about. I just don't like the way the industry is going about dealing with an oversight by their own staff. It doesn't seem to be understood that not everybody is too lazy to read the rulebook and simply rely on the word of someone else who may or may not know what they're talking about, even if ticketing staff at the level of front line ticket inspectors, to the retail management grade are. I will not stand for management staff treating people in this way. The sooner Southeastern admit to me that they are required to abide by the terms of the TSA and cancel that Penalty Fare, the sooner we can all move on.
The change has happened overnight - tickets I bought today and over the last few days can be seen here.
In the meantime, I don't know what kind of operation Southeastern are running with their Independent Penalty Fares Appeal Service. They have implied in writing that they don't need to be competent in establishing the validity of a ticket in order to assess an appeal. It seems they need to defer to comrades within the industry to do this, as they don't actually appear to be able to interpret the NRCoC for themselves. In fact, have a read of the last letter they sent to me. I am neither impressed by their attitude towards ticketing disputes, nor fazed by what I consider to be a veiled threat contained in the preantepenultimate paragraph.
I have never heard of these people approving appeals on the basis of giving the benefit of the doubt. Southeastern continue to uphold the pretence that they have not been told that they are required to display any restrictions to permitted routes on tickets prior to enforcing them. This is contained in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement, specifically Schedule 24, Clause 13. I've also gone through the terms of their franchise and it says that tickets valid between London and Ashford (or Gravesend) via HS1 by the National Routeing Guide must be accepted as such, unless they are marked to show a not via CTRL restriction. It would be much easier for all concerned if they admitted that they do need to do this and be happy that a change has been put into place. For those not aware of the incident that occurred on the 1st April, I was given a Penalty Fare for using a Canterbury West to Tilbury Riverside ticket (with the eponymous route) via Stratford International, which is on the line of the shortest route between those stations.
It very much seems like the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. ATOC and c2C appear to share a common understanding that the intended route involved use of the Gravesend to Tilbury ferry, which is not coded into any of the journey planners or mentioned in any way, shape or form in the National Rail Timetable. Southeastern however have a completely different stance which involves enforcing a "Not Valid on HS1" restriction on it. They say it can be used on the classic lines into London Bridge, the Underground to West Ham then by train to Tilbury. They evidently have some sway, because the WebTiS journey planners now show this precise route when the "Via Tilbury but Not via Ferry" route filter is selected.
Recently, the exclusion for the Stratford Group was removed from the TVM at Canterbury West. Presumably something to do with Southeastern being told that the enforcement of that that restriction was illegitimate.
Ultimately, the new routing is beneficial to me and allows me to reduce the cost of a one way trip from Canterbury to St Pancras to less than £4, which I'm not going to complain about. I just don't like the way the industry is going about dealing with an oversight by their own staff. It doesn't seem to be understood that not everybody is too lazy to read the rulebook and simply rely on the word of someone else who may or may not know what they're talking about, even if ticketing staff at the level of front line ticket inspectors, to the retail management grade are. I will not stand for management staff treating people in this way. The sooner Southeastern admit to me that they are required to abide by the terms of the TSA and cancel that Penalty Fare, the sooner we can all move on.
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