Route TILBY EXCL FERRY no longer exists

[ainsworth74]

If you read the Routeing Guide instructions it might become a bit clearer as to what's going on. If you're still confused then feel free to ask we're happy to help

 

[tony6499]

If you read the Routeing Guide instructions it might become a bit clearer as to what's going on. If you're still confused then feel free to ask we're happy to help

Advertised through train ? I would guess at but he hasn't said or I can't see where he said what train he was on

 

[bb21]

Advertised through train ? I would guess at but he hasn't said or I can't see where he said what train he was on

Not a through train.

You should be able to construct a permitted mapped route between Bromley South and London Terminals via Ramsgate on map combination LK+LD.

 

[Eagle]

You should be able to construct a permitted mapped route between Bromley South and London Terminals via Ramsgate on map combination LK+LD.

Such as:

Bromley South > Sevenoaks > Tonbridge > Ashford > Ramsgate on map LK

Ramsgate > Faversham > Chatham > Swanley > Grove Park > Hither Green > New Cross > London Bridge on map LD

As this route does not double back at any point, and I've used both maps in the correct order, then this route is indisputably valid.

 

[yorkie]

Advertised through train ? I would guess at but he hasn't said or I can't see where he said what train he was on

It's a mapped routes, the Routeing Guide explains how to look up mapped routes, but if you get stuck, let us know which part you are stuck on and we'll be happy to help

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Thoroughly enjoyed listening to that recording RJ. The common theme to your escapades is essentially that "Any Permitted" is not what it says in the Routeing Guide, it is actually whatever the individual gripper decided to permit.

In the bad old days of any reasonable they would have had a point. But in the modern improved legally contracted railway reason is irrelevant, permitted is what the various contracts permit. A pity that for so many you encounter "I don't care what that [NRCoC] says, it doesn't apply to me/this train". Indeed, if only their contractual obligations agreed.....

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rheilffordd]

I received a cheque from Southeastern this week, which appears to cover the remainder of the costs I incurred when dealing with the dispute. This was the Penalty Fare I received at Stratford International on the 1st of April for using one of these via Tilbury tickets along the route. I was threatened with court and served a Notice of Intention to Prosecute. Given that the Penalty Fare appeal was successful due to "benefit of the doubt," it would appear that they are withdrawing all action against me. I wonder why.

In the meantime, a recording has surfaced of ticketing dispute with a Southeastern Conductor. This includes the driver of the train (confirming his role at 10:35) entering the saloon to get involved in a discussion regarding tickets. The train was delayed due to the driver abandoning the cab to talk about tickets and the conductor refusing to dispatch the train until the British Transport Police turned up.

For those wondering what happened next, immediately after the recording ended I put in a phone call to Customer Relations to complain about the incident. When the BTP arrived, I disembarked of my own accord and articulated myself to them. The conductor lost his temper in front of the BTP whilst I was on the platform, correcting the lies he was telling an officer who was taking a statement. The crew finally decided that they would continue on. Five or so minutes later, a High Speed service arrived going in the same direction arrived, which the BTP were happy for me to board.

If Southeastern have any problems, I'm quite happy to liaise with them about their staff using their powers to detrain customers and delay trains carrying other passengers in these specific circumstances - a conductor who was completely wrong, no aggravating factors and no revenue at risk. I'll also query them as to whether either action was in the public interest, particularly that of the paying customers at the time. I also happen to think that it's very bad form for safety critical staff to allow ticketing matters to agitate them whilst working trains. Name/address was volunteered so the option existed to defer the matter to staff with the ability to establish the validity of the ticket and follow it up.

I've worked a bus driver on inner London routes like the 35, where intending passengers threatened to end my life on more than one occasion because I didn't authorise them to travel without paying. Passengers who witnessed this often asked if I was ok. I laughed it off as I was more concerned about maintaining a good headway. So if I can dismiss* rude fare evaders and keep a cool head for the sake of doing a job where I'm directly responsible for the safety of my passengers, what on earth is the matter with this conductor - where are the people handling skills?

*Putting in a call to control at the first safe opportunity to allow them to warn other drivers/the police.

Good evening,

Would it be possible for you to state what comments/reply SouthEastern Trains (Customer Services) have made in relation to the Bromley-London ticketing issue?

 

[sheff1]

The recording shows just how clueless these people really are. Loved it when, right at the end, he proclaims 'we're trained'. Priceless .

 

[tony6499]

The recording shows just how clueless these people really are. Loved it when, right at the end, he proclaims 'we're trained'. Priceless .

I believe it was the driver that came out with that, not sure I know that commercial duties are part of a drivers training

 

[paulypaul]

When is the Railforum members outing from Bromley South to London Bridge via Ramsgate taking place?

I presume the Anytime Day Single allows a break of journey?

 

[RJ]

Good evening,

Would it be possible for you to state what comments/reply SouthEastern Trains (Customer Services) have made in relation to the Bromley-London ticketing issue?

I didn't complain. Even though I paid for a new ticket between Ashford Int and Canterbury West on the following High Speed service, I figured that the benefits of keeping quiet far outweighed those of making noise about it. Any report submitted by that conductor would probably have portrayed it as a fare evasion issue. Whether or not their staff are aware of the concept of NRG absurdities is something I'm not sure about.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When is the Railforum members outing from Bromley South to London Bridge via Ramsgate taking place?

I presume the Anytime Day Single allows a break of journey?

There might be some problems finding a service to travel between St Mary Cray and Chislehurst. Wonder what could be done with a Boundary Zone 5 ticket however...

 

[talltim]

Such as:

Bromley South > Sevenoaks > Tonbridge > Ashford > Ramsgate on map LK

I like that map!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Am I right in thinking that if the guard wasn't sure of the validity he should have withdrawn the ticket and given a zero fare replacement? Of course he was sure of the invalidity so that wasn't an option.

 

[bb21]

Am I right in thinking that if the guard wasn't sure of the validity he should have withdrawn the ticket and given a zero fare replacement? Of course he was sure of the invalidity so that wasn't an option.

Yes, he has the choice of filling in a Report for Irregular Travel, withdraw the ticket, and provide a zero-fare replacement to enable the passenger to complete his journey. (Final item not necessary if the passenger can reach his destination on said service.)

The matter would then be investigated by the company.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Just had a look at the Fares Database for NFM16 from the ATOC site, and the description has been changed yet again. As of 12th August, it's been changed to "TILBRY&GRAVESND".

 

[Mojo]

Still doesn't prevent travel via Ebbsfleet & Stratford

 

[RJ]

Nope! Whoever is driving these changes in the routing needs to try harder!

 

[Eagle]

In fourteen characters or less?

How about "TBY GRV NT HS1"? :P

 

[bb21]

In fourteen characters or less?

How about "TBY GRV NT HS1"? :P

OK, pretend that you are not a member of any railway forum.

Now decipher the above.

 

[Eagle]

Toby Grove New Testament Stornoway.

 

[John @ home]

How about "TBY GRV NT HS1"? :P

decipher the above.

NT is the abbreviation for Northern Rail, in order to avoid confusion with NR = Network Rail.

 

[maniacmartin]

NT is the abbreviation for Northern Rail, in order to avoid confusion with NR = Network Rail.

I don't think it avoids confusion though, given the letters appear in NeTwork!

 

[CyrusWuff]

With 16 characters to play with rather than 14, and remembering that Tilbury Riverside still features as a location despite being closed for 20 years, how about "TBR&GRV NOT HS1" or, if you want to specify Tilbury Town, "TIL&GRV NOT HS1"?

Not exactly passenger (or staff) friendly though when it comes to deciphering it.

 

[maniacmartin]

I don't think you can really use the NLC codes given no other route descriptions do. I don't think there's any way to describe the intended validity in so few characters.

 

[Eagle]

I don't think you can really use the NLC codes given no other route descriptions do. I don't think there's any way to describe the intended validity in so few characters.

(Assuming you mean CRS codes, which are three letters, not NLC codes which are four digits.)

Some XC advances use DBY, CNM and WVH in their route description (as in "AP XC VIA DBY"). Or at least they used to.

 

[maniacmartin]

Well with APs it doesn't really matter as you have to use booked trains anyway. And yes I mean CRS codes

 

[John @ home]

how about "TBR&GRV NOT HS1" or ... "TIL&GRV NOT HS1"?

If you're using CRS code, these give RJ permission to use the ticket via Nottingham!

 

[Muzer]

(Assuming you mean CRS codes, which are three letters, not NLC codes which are four digits.)

Some XC advances use DBY, CNM and WVH in their route description (as in "AP XC VIA DBY"). Or at least they used to.

Stupid question that's been bugging me for a while, what does the P stand for in AP? Purchase?

 

[telstarbox]

The short answer is yes.

 

[Eagle]

And the long answer is yeeeeeeeeeeeeeees. :P

 

[LexyBoy]

Protip: putting the destination into a routeing doesn't do very much.

How about:

NOT EBBSFLEET
NOT GRAYS
SEE RESTRICTNS
FERRY NOT HS1
VIA FERRY/SWIM
AS ADVERTISED