Routing Wigan and Newton-le-Willows

[Mathew S]

Can anyone think of a ticket that would valid for travel both from Wigan - Manchester (and return) and from Newton-le-Willows to Manchester (and return)?

There are going to be a few weeks this year when I'm going to need to use both routes on different days, and a few times where I'll need to go from Wigan and return to Newton, and vice versa. It makes buying the right ticket a real pain.

 

[gray1404]

Off the top of my head, without checking, I would suspect that a ticket to Liverpool would be but also one from Southport provided it was routed any permitted. Although I would hope there might be others that are not as expensive.

 

[Mathew S]

Off the top of my head, without checking, I would suspect that a ticket to Liverpool would be but also one from Southport provided it was routed any permitted. Although I would hope there might be others that are not as expensive.

I'd thought Liverpool, but via Wigan doesn't seem to be valid (unless I'm reading the routing guide wrong, which is entirely plausible).
And yeah, Southport would, I'd imagine, be rather pricier than I'd hoped - again, worth a look though. Thanks.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I'd thought Liverpool, but via Wigan doesn't seem to be valid (unless I'm reading the routing guide wrong, which is entirely plausible).
And yeah, Southport would, I'd imagine, be rather pricier than I'd hoped - again, worth a look though. Thanks.

Southport isn't a Routeing Point in its own right, so you have to determine an appropriate Routeing Point. It's associated with Liverpool, Preston and Wigan. All three of those pass the fares check, so all three are appropriate.

Accordingly, a ticket from Manchester to Southport is valid via Liverpool and hence Newton-le-Willows, or via Preston, or via Wigan.

You get ever so slightly more validity, for the same price, by buying something like Urmston to Southport. Urmston is associated with both Manchester and Warrington, both of which pass the fares check and are hence appropriate Routeing Points.

There may be a cheaper option than Manchester/Urmston to Southport, but if there is one, I don't know what it might be.

 

[Mathew S]

Southport isn't a Routeing Point in its own right, so you have to determine an appropriate Routeing Point. It's associated with Liverpool, Preston and Wigan. All three of those pass the fares check, so all three are appropriate.

Accordingly, a ticket from Manchester to Southport is valid via Liverpool and hence Newton-le-Willows, or via Preston, or via Wigan.

You get ever so slightly more validity, for the same price, by buying something like Urmston to Southport. Urmston is associated with both Manchester and Warrington, both of which pass the fares check and are hence appropriate Routeing Points.

There may be a cheaper option than Manchester/Urmston to Southport, but if there is one, I don't know what it might be.

Thanks. I always struggle to make sense of the fares check so that's incredibly helpful. I'll have a play with Urmston - Southport and see what I can make work.

 

[supervalkoinen]

I'm no expert, but maybe Prescot?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks. I always struggle to make sense of the fares check so that's incredibly helpful. I'll have a play with Urmston - Southport and see what I can make work.

There is a Routeing Point Calculator - however it does struggle with some fares checks, mainly due to issues with tickets being issued to/from station groups or individual stations, which won't necessarily align with what the modern Routeing Guide structure is. For example, in the case of Manchester to Southport it thinks there were no fares from Manchester to Wigan in 1996. Which, with respect, I think is not quite true! But for Urmston to Southport it correctly shows all the possible Routeing Points as passing.

 

[Springs Branch]

I'm no expert, but maybe Prescot?

A Prescot/Manchester ticket is probably the best bet for validity, but not sure if it's worth paying for the un-needed extra mileage.

BR Fares website shows the following for: 7-Day Season / Anytime Day Return

• Prescot - Manchester Stations Any Permitted: £66.60 / £15.20
• (Prescot - Manchester Stations via Wigan: £55.70 / £14.00)
• Newton-le-Willows - Manchester Stations: £39.70 / £9.20
• Wigan Stations - Manchester CTLZ: £29.80 / £9.90

Depending how many days a week and how many "open jaw" trips you anticipate whether it's worth paying for the Prescot Any Permitted option.

 

[Mathew S]

There is a Routeing Point Calculator - however it does struggle with some fares checks, mainly due to issues with tickets being issued to/from station groups or individual stations, which won't necessarily align with what the modern Routeing Guide structure is. For example, in the case of Manchester to Southport it thinks there were no fares from Manchester to Wigan in 1996. Which, with respect, I think is not quite true! But for Urmston to Southport it correctly shows all the possible Routeing Points as passing.

Yeah. There are quite a few journeys in/around Wigan where the calculator returns no valid routes which is unhelpful to say the least.
Thanks for your help though. Hoping to get to a fares workshop at some point so hopefully that'll help me make sense of it properly.

 

[sheff1]

I'm no expert, but maybe Prescot?

The 'any permitted' certainly. In theory, you should be able to buy the 'via Wigan' and excess in one direction (on walk ups) ..... am not sure if the OP wants a season or daily tickets ?

 

[Mathew S]

A Prescot/Manchester ticket is probably the best bet for validity, but not sure if it's worth paying for the un-needed extra mileage.

BR Fares website shows the following for: 7-Day Season / Anytime Day Return

• Prescot - Manchester Stations Any Permitted: £66.60 / £15.20
• (Prescot - Manchester Stations via Wigan: £55.70 / £14.00)
• Newton-le-Willows - Manchester Stations: £39.70 / £9.20
• Wigan Stations - Manchester CTLZ: £29.80 / £9.90

Depending how many days a week and how many "open jaw" trips you anticipate whether it's worth paying for the Prescot Any Permitted option.

That's useful, thanks. You're right that I need to look at the number of days. I also need to work out if I'll need the Metrolink Z1 validity that comes with the Wigan ticket.. because that alters the price equation as well.

 

[sheff1]

Yeah. There are quite a few journeys in/around Wigan where the calculator returns no valid routes which is unhelpful to say the least.

Liverpool (and others) to Manchester used to be mapped via Wigan, but that was withdrawn not that long ago.

 

[Haywain]

I would have thought that a ticket from somewhere between Kirkby and Sandhills to Manchester would be valid from Wigan and Newton-le-Willows to Manchester.

Edit: Rice Lane or Kirkdale, perhaps.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would have thought that a ticket from somewhere between Kirkby and Sandhills to Manchester would be valid from Wigan and Newton-le-Willows to Manchester.

Ormskirk, Aughton Park or Town Green (fares all the same) would definitely be accepted via Burscough (and so Wigan), I'm not sure how the Routeing Guide works with the walk at Burscough but it's definitely seen as reasonable locally and would not be questioned. No idea how that sits price-wise though.

 

[scrapy]

It might be worth asking Northern what routes you can travel by on an Eccles/Patricroft to Garswood season. There seems to be no valid route most of the day even though tickets are available as they are not valid via Manchester, Warrington or Huyton. It seems you can only go via Newton le Willows then direct to Wigan. (1 train per day Northbound, 2 southbound)

It would seem reasonable to be able to travel via Manchester on that so it may be worth asking Northern if it can be used via Manchester (the Eccles/Patricroft to Bryn can only be used via Manchester) as I suspect it's an oversight. If Northern agree then it would cover to either Wigan or Newton from Manchester.

 

[Springs Branch]

That's an interesting approach if Northern are willing to confirm validity via both Manchester and Huyton.

However is it the case that a Garswood - Patricroft ticket would restrict you to exiting the station in Manchester only at Deansgate or Manchester Victoria? If you tried to exit at Oxford Road or Piccadilly, would an inspector pull you up for exceeding your ticket's validity by being at these stations?


If it turns out a Garswood - Patricroft ticket is not a valid way to get "buy and forget" flexibility, how about a Wigan Stations - Patricroft 7-day season at £29.80 (same price as Wigan - Manchester CTLZ) then "pay-as-you-go" on your Newton-le-Willows days with a NLW / PAT Anytime Day Return at £8.00 or Single at £5.90.

Downside of this is no validity on Metrolink in the city centre and presumably limited to exiting & entering only at Manchester Victoria or Deansgate, as above. And would your train to/from NLW need to stop at Patricroft to legitimately use this option?

If you did need to use Metrolink in the central zone and/or travel to Oxford Road or Piccadilly, maybe could consider paying a bit more for wider validity with a Wigan Stations - Manchester CTLZ 7-day season at £29.80, then buy daily tickets as required between NLW / Manchester Stations at £9.20 Anytime Day Return / £8.20 Anytime Single (i.e. before 0930) / £7.70 Off Peak Single.

 

[OwlMan]

It might be worth asking Northern what routes you can travel by on an Eccles/Patricroft to Garswood season. There seems to be no valid route most of the day even though tickets are available as they are not valid via Manchester, Warrington or Huyton. It seems you can only go via Newton le Willows then direct to Wigan. (1 train per day Northbound, 2 southbound)……...

There is no reason why the ticket should be valid by any other route, there are lots of examples of tickets only valid for one train a day (or even a week)

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

And would your train to/from NLW need to stop at Patricroft to legitimately use this option?

No, any combination of a season ticket plus another ticket does not require you stop at the changeover point. That is the whole origin of the rule - so you could "extend" the validity of your season ticket by adding on an additional ticket, as a sort of excess, in an analogous way to how ordinary ticket holders can (in theory) obtain an overdistance excess. To put it another way, I don't think anyone would say you are supposed to stop at a mythical Boundary Zone 6 station if you have a Zones 1-6 Travelcard and a Boundary Zone 6 to X ticket!

 

[kieron]

One other possibility would be a Bryn-Middlewood route "Metrolink CTLZ" ticket. It costs £29.80 for a 7 day season, or £11.90 for a day return, and the mapped routes for it include:

Bryn-Wigan-Warrington-Earlestown-Manchester-Hazel Grove-Middlewood
Bryn-Wigan-Atherton-Manchester-Hazel Grove-Middlewood
Bryn-Wigan-Bolton-Manchester-Hazel Grove-Middlewood

There are cheaper tickets available, but the routes involved become more and more obscure the further you look.