Royal Mail to cease using trains

[fandroid]

How useful are the relinquished paths? How well did they fit in with freight?

 

[Trainbike46]

Domestic letter volumes will have dropped, but surely in line with the experience in other Western nations, parcels volumes should be quite healthy, considering there are more than 60 million residents in England and Scotland combined. England attracts many migrants from Eastern European nations who may send parcels that are partly railed then air freighted to destination.

Sure, vegetable oil is used in some of RM's road vehicles, but how does this decision marry with ESG credentials?

that's simple, ESG credentials are not the priority at royal mail (or the vast majority of businesses for that matter).

Just how small an operation it is now and the age of the 325s. Shrinking mail volumes seem to have been replaced with parcels but it just doesn’t stack up for me personally.

letter volumes are undeniably down, but parcels are both more valuable and more volumous, so I don't see why parcels by train hsouldn't work. Ideally there would be more routes though, including from the west midlands and national hub to other places

RM has been cutting back on its air network too, affecting its East Midlands airport operation and others, and moving more by road.

Frankly, that is a good development -

A lot of the time Royal Mail are very expensive compared to others, I used to sell a lot of transport related items on ebay a few years back. To post a Wayfarer bus machine cost me around £15 with Royal Mail but around £5 through Parcel Force online. I also had a job lot of broken bus destination controllers bought by a guy in Poland. I took the package to the post office who said it was £70 to send it. Did some shopping around online and got it sent over for about £20 in the end.

Key point there is that parcelforce is in fact owned by royal mail, and some alternative couriers/websites do have royal mail handle the actual parcel

Not to mention because a lot of bank branches have closed, I would often be queueing up to 20 minutes to post a parcel as there was always a big queue for banking related custom. It didn't matter in the end because they closed my local post office anyway!

Post office and royal mail are separate entities, and royal mail is clearly trying to reduce the amount of things going via post offices

I hope noone at DB Cargo will lose their job over this - and I hope that we can make changes in the industry to make rail more attractive. Flows between distribution centres are one where rail should be able to compete very well

 

[westcoaster]

Could we see Amazon move into the UK rail market, I believe they use rail on the USA.

They have some rather large hubs, including several near East Midlands airport.

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder that any spin-off discussions, ideas, proposals, suggestions or predictions, should be posted in a separate thread please, thanks!

 

[endecotp]

RM has been cutting back on its air network too, affecting its East Midlands airport operation and others, and moving more by road.

Here's the Guardian story about that from a few days ago:

Royal Mail goes ahead with cuts to UK flights despite takeover

Three more freight flights to go this month as parent company’s CEO Martin Seidenberg pursues transformation

www.theguardian.com

They claim this will save 30,000 tonnes / year CO2-equivalent emissions by moving to road transport. Would anyone like to guess what the increase resulting from the move from rail to road will be? They aim for net-zero by 2040.

One of the cancelled air routes is Stanstead to Edinburgh, which would have been an obvious option to move to (electric) rail.

Apparently the move from air to road is possible by getting people to work 90 minutes later in delivery offices. At some point in the past, the amount of mail moved by air increased as a result in lowered speed limits for HGVs.

 

[Peter0124]

Seems strange considering they're running a very frequent WCML service now, and that was only recently too!

Have Royal Mail officially announced anything or is it just Daily Mail speculation?

 

[Trainbike46]

Seems strange considering they're running a very frequent WCML service now, and that was only recently too!

Have Royal Mail officially announced anything or is it just Daily Mail speculation?

there is a statement from DB:

x.com

twitter.com

 

[najaB]

To post a Wayfarer bus machine cost me around £15 with Royal Mail but around £5 through Parcel Force online.

Unless things have changed recently, ParcelForce is Royal Mail.

 

[bearhugger]

Unless things have changed recently, ParcelForce is Royal Mail.

As mentioned just a few posts upthread by @Trainbike46, Royal Mail, ParcelForce & Post Office are three separate entities under an umbrella organisation.

 

[Trainman40083]

How useful are the relinquished paths? How well did they fit in with freight?

I am sure other parcel logistics companies will take advantage.

 

[Peter0124]

there is a statement from DB:

x.com

twitter.com

Oof, wonder what'll happen to the stock and paths.

 

[Trainbike46]

As mentioned just a few posts upthread by @Trainbike46, Royal Mail, ParcelForce & Post Office are three separate entities under an umbrella organisation.

That's not correct, parcelforce and royal mail are part of the same group, but post office is entirely separate (and owned by the government, in fact)

 

[najaB]

As mentioned just a few posts upthread by @Trainbike46, Royal Mail, ParcelForce & Post Office are three separate entities under an umbrella organisation.

Thanks. The page hadn't yet updated when I posted.

 

[M.o]

More redundancies on the horizon , so much for going green

 

[swt_passenger]

It is reported in the Daily Mail yesterday evening (9th July 2024) that Royal Mail is to stop deliveries by railway.
[…]
Currently, mail trains run between London (Willesden), Warrington and Glasgow (Shieldmuir) via the West Coast Main Line, using specially re-purposed Class 325 emus, approximately once per day on weekdays. Services were later established from London (Willesden) to Newcastle (Low Fell), although Real Time Trains indicates that these train paths are rarely used; none ran in the last 7 days.

The end of the ECML mail trains had its own thread back in June:

ECML mail trains

Hi all - a note for yesterday’s 5Z06 Willesden PRDC to Tyne S.S. on Railcam suggests that it was the final ever 325 on the ECML. Can anyone confirm? I have attached the note. Note reads: final ever 325 up the ECML, last one Was lucky to see it at Camden Road yesterday clearly!

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[12LDA28C]

Varamis must be watching things very closely, potentially a huge gap in the market about to open up.

Question is, will Royal Mail agree to sell the 325s to any potential competitor or will they insist they be scrapped?

I'd imagine the 325s would need major investment in order to extend their lifespan beyond the next few years. Clearly RM were unwilling to spend the money and Varamis probably aren't in a position to do so either.

 

[HSTEd]

How useful are the relinquished paths? How well did they fit in with freight?

I doubt they fit that well, given that Class 325s are, I believe, essentially Class 319s with different bodywork.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It did, and the resumption was on a much more limited scale than the previous operation. But as the Labour Government did nothing to stop the move then I very much doubt it will intervene now.

Part of that was they could reuse the assets at low cost as they were already there.
With high operating costs and ageing trains (325s), I imagine there was no case to commit to rail for another generation.
And what is the market for another batch of high-mileage class 319 clones?
I noticed GA's 321 fleet still parked up idle at Warrington on Monday (MSC sidings).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

This is the problem with having all of these services privatised. It might be commercially cheaper for a private company to use road, however it won't be in the nation's interest to transport these volumes that way.

Yes. I wonder what the new Labour Government might do about this.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Clearly it's cheaper to send a convoy of polluting diesel lorries, each with its own driver, from Willesden to Shieldmuir than one clean electric train with one/two driver(s). It's because of the massive hidden subsidies paid to the road haulage industry. There are of course no toll-booths between Willesden and Shieldmuir (Royal Mail doesn't use the M6-Toll)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It seems RM will be using rail in the future, just not with its own dedicated trains.
It talks about using "commercial" rail services as part of its network.
Maybe this means containerised mail on intermodal trains.
The DB Cargo press release makes no mention of this.

MSN

Royal Mail will ditch its own fleet of trains as part of major changes to how it delivers post.
The postal service said on Wednesday that its almost 30-year-old freight trains are at the end of their operational lives and that it will not be buying new trains.
The firm will instead use a combination of commercial rail services, its existing road network and reduced air services to transport mail
...
A spokesperson said: “Royal Mail will continue to use rail services to transport mail across the country however our own freight trains are at the end of their operational lives.
“The trains are almost 30 years old and it is increasingly difficult to secure parts for maintenance and the routes we need to meet our service requirements.
“To improve reliability, increase cost-effectiveness and remain consistent with our environmental goals, over the coming months we will cease operating our own trains whilst continuing to use a mix of rail, road and air to transport mail to all corners of the UK.”

 

[En]

As mentioned just a few posts upthread by @Trainbike46, Royal Mail, ParcelForce & Post Office are three separate entities under an umbrella organisation.

No they aren;t
RM and PFW are one organisation although operationally seperate in many respects , somewhat confused by PFW locations in some places being shared with RM and the Line haull for RM and PFW being operated by part of RM often with little regard ot the livery of the vehicles operated

PO counters is entirely seperate

 

[YorkRailFan]

DB Cargo UK is now calling on politicians and policymakers to get round the table regarding this, in a recent tweet.

We are profoundly disappointed by @RoyalMail's decision to stop using rail freight. Politicians and policymakers must get round the table to look at how we can level the playing field between rail freight and road haulage. Freight belongs on rail!

#railfreight

x.com

x.com

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

The comments from RM about it being increasingly difficult to find parts is complete rubbish - the reality is that the parts exist (and lots of similarities with other BR EMUs of that area, some of which have been scrapped, but substantial numbers of parts salvaged and stored). The price of them may well be a factor, and the units no doubt are due a refurb/overhaul - but it's simply a question of money.

In any event, you could strip the 325s back so much that they essentially just become very simple coaching stock and stick a loco on the front - not that difficult.

You'd think RM would simply put a contract out to tender for the carriage of mail by rail - with the expectation that the bidder provides their own rolling stock (or buys the 325s) .

 

[geordieblue]

IIRC VGA vans have been used for special Christmas mail services in the past, maybe this is the way forward? RM rail depots would seem to be better set up for side-loading wagons as opposed to containers.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Royal Mail is cutting back on using aircraft as well - another cost cutting move at the expense of customer service.

Guardian

As part of the overhaul, Royal Mail is halving its daily chartered flights transporting post around the UK to 18 in an effort to reduce costs and cut its carbon emissions. The company cut the first 11 flights last week and will end another three on 20 July and a further four in early 2025.

The move, an element of Seidenberg’s strategy after his arrival last year, represents its biggest ever reduction of domestic airmail, saving 30,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent a year by shifting the post on to the roads and cutting 1.2m air miles. It hopes to hit net zero by 2040.

 

[HSTEd]

IIRC VGA vans have been used for special Christmas mail services in the past, maybe this is the way forward? RM rail depots would seem to be better set up for side-loading wagons as opposed to containers.

Side loading containers are available, so that is not necessarily an issue.

 

[Trackman]

I imagine many people do what I do though and pick a cheaper courier online. I can either buy and print a label then drop off at a shop or locker, or pay an extra few quid and have a courier collect it from my house.

A lot of the time Royal Mail are very expensive compared to others, I used to sell a lot of transport related items on ebay a few years back. To post a Wayfarer bus machine cost me around £15 with Royal Mail but around £5 through Parcel Force online. I also had a job lot of broken bus destination controllers bought by a guy in Poland. I took the package to the post office who said it was £70 to send it. Did some shopping around online and got it sent over for about £20 in the end.

Not to mention because a lot of bank branches have closed, I would often be queueing up to 20 minutes to post a parcel as there was always a big queue for banking related custom. It didn't matter in the end because they closed my local post office anyway!

All being said, it will be a shame to see the rail operations cease, although I had been wondering how much longer they would continue anyway.

In fact, I had to send something the other day, it was 32p extra for the courier to pick it up, grand total £2.92.
Gawd only knows how much that would cost with royal mail, that's why I use couriers, plus it doesn't shock me about the title of this thread.
We have/had a thread somewhere about couriers, can I find it? No.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Clearly it's cheaper to send a convoy of polluting diesel lorries, each with its own driver, from Willesden to Shieldmuir than one clean electric train with one/two driver(s). It's because of the massive hidden subsidies paid to the road haulage industry. There are of course no toll-booths between Willesden and Shieldmuir (Royal Mail doesn't use the M6-Toll)

I know. It is as frustrating as heck.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Varamis must be watching things very closely, potentially a huge gap in the market about to open up.

Question is, will Royal Mail agree to sell the 325s to any potential competitor or will they insist they be scrapped?

Royal Mail are pulling out of rail to save money. No competitor is going to switch to rail because they want to spend more!

A secondary issue is also if a train is late it delays millions of items of Mail. If a lorry is late it's "only" a few thousand. So it's unlikely anyone else is interested.