Running with the interior lights off

[adc82140]

Many years ago, travelling on the SWML I remember on hot sunny days trains running with the saloon lights switched off. Was this a specific policy, or just something done by individual guards?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I remember when I was a kid that Merseyrail trains on the Ormskirk line used to have lights off until stopping at Walton, then on for Kirkdale tunnels etc.

 

[hexagon789]

Many years ago, travelling on the SWML I remember on hot sunny days trains running with the saloon lights switched off. Was this a specific policy, or just something done by individual guards?

On units or loco-hauled trains?

 

[adc82140]

Units. Cigs and Veps.

 

[hexagon789]

Units. Cigs and Veps.

If it was LHCS I would've said lack of ETH, but that doesn't really apply to units

 

[eastwestdivide]

I also remember travelling on SR EMUs (1970s-80s period), mostly SE Division, on which the lights were only switched on for tunnels. No idea if it was policy, but it seems to have been common enough practice.

 

[Mag_seven]

I also remember travelling on SR EMUs (1970s-80s period), mostly SE Division, on which the lights were only switched on for tunnels.

I think I can remember something similar for class 303 emus in the Glasgow area in the 70s.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

When I worked first generation DMUs back in the 80s, it was policy to have the saloon lights off in daylight hours unless you entered a tunnel.

There was a convenient ‘train lights’ on/off switch situated at the Guards desk in the brake van but inevitably you sometimes forgot, especially if you had the independent brake van lights on.

Loco hauled stock and EMUs generally ran with lights on continuously.

 

[Millisle]

Running with lights on in the day time is a modern thing and did not happen in the '60s and '70s when I was first travelling. Even now it feels odd to me. I always used to hope guards would forget to put them on for the Moncreiffe tunnel at Perth when I travelled between Inverness and Edinburgh and occasionally they did.

 

[yorksrob]

I also remember travelling on SR EMUs (1970s-80s period), mostly SE Division, on which the lights were only switched on for tunnels. No idea if it was policy, but it seems to have been common enough practice.

Would seem pointless betweenn Tonbridge and London.

I don't recall this happenning as a matter of course, so it must have ceased by the mid 1980's. By then we were largely in the post tungsten era anyway.

 

[30907]

I am old enough to remember this being normal practice in daylight (EMUs included).

 

[peteb]

Lights on: I guess it's all to do with Health and Safety to prevent trips and falls. I always prefer to have interior lights off when travelling so I can see the scenery, especially early evening! On heritage railways it's often possible in compartment stock to switch the central light(s) to dim, and switch off reading lamps. Not so easy on open stock or stock with low energy or fluorescent lights. I've done winter railtours on Network Rail in open stock where the reflections caused by bright interior lights have all but completely blotted out the scenery of the S&C route, sunsets etc. Maybe charter operators could advertise a dimly lit carriage for those that prefer to look out rather than read or eat 3 course meals, for which bright light is of course essential.

 

[davetheguard]

When I worked first generation DMUs back in the 80s, it was policy to have the saloon lights off in daylight hours unless you entered a tunnel.

There was a convenient ‘train lights’ on/off switch situated at the Guards desk in the brake van but inevitably you sometimes forgot, especially if you had the independent brake van lights on.

Loco hauled stock and EMUs generally ran with lights on continuously.

On the Western Region, I'd say loco-hauled stock (well, Mk1's anyway) ran with lights off in daylight, just like the first generation DMU's you mention. The first tunnel out of Paddington wasn't until Somerton (Somerset) on the West of England main line.

 

[delt1c]

If it was LHCS I would've said lack of ETH, but that doesn't really apply to units

On Mk 1 and i believe Mk2 the lighting was powered from batteries which were charged from a dynamo when the train was in motion. Therefore ETH not required for lighting

 

[peteb]

Best trip with lights out was Metro Cammell DMU Llandudno Junction to Blaenau Festiniog in the 1990s. Being sat behind the driver was quite exciting in the tunnel I recall.

On the Western Region, I'd say loco-hauled stock (well, Mk1's anyway) ran with lights off in daylight, just like the first generation DMU's you mention. The first tunnel out of Paddington wasn't until Somerton (Somerset) on the West of England main line.

Yes, the 1903 FO to from Paddington to Worcester was often 50 hauled plus Mk 1 corridor stock. Often lights were on only if passengers switched them on, so if they were off you got a great view of the Cotswolds at dusk, and frequently saw deer and other wildlife.

On first generation Dmus they almost always put the lights on for Old Hill tunnel between Birmingham and Worcester but almost never for Rainbow Hill Tunnel just by Shrub Hill station.

 

[yorksrob]

Lights on: I guess it's all to do with Health and Safety to prevent trips and falls. I always prefer to have interior lights off when travelling so I can see the scenery, especially early evening! On heritage railways it's often possible in compartment stock to switch the central light(s) to dim, and switch off reading lamps. Not so easy on open stock or stock with low energy or fluorescent lights. I've done winter railtours on Network Rail in open stock where the reflections caused by bright interior lights have all but completely blotted out the scenery of the S&C route, sunsets etc. Maybe charter operators could advertise a dimly lit carriage for those that prefer to look out rather than read or eat 3 course meals, for which bright light is of course essential.

I would gladly pay for that.

The night time scenery is compelling in its own way, but with flourescent lighting, one rarely gets to see it from a train.

 

[Gloster]

I can remember in the late 1970s going into Chalk Tunnel at Guildford with the lights off. Sometimes they came on, sometimes not. It didn’t seem to happen at Buriton.

 

[superjohn]

In the late 1980’s I can remember travelling on a class 101 from Cambridge to Ipswich with no working interior lights. Thankfully it was daylight and East Anglia doesn’t have many tunnels. There is one near Newmarket though, for which the guard stood in the centre gangway and pointed Bardic lamps into both carriages. The light provided was minimal but at least he made the effort.

Lighting that is only used when needed is mainly found on heritage railways these days. Their stock doesn’t run far or fast enough to maintain sufficient battery charge for continual use.

German Intercity compartment stock still has a light switch in each compartment. A lights off trip after dark can be very relaxing if you can get a compartment to yourself.

 

[Sprinter107]

The Birmingham area local dmu services only turned the lights on for tunnels, or in hours of darkness at one time.

 

[Trackman]

When I worked first generation DMUs back in the 80s, it was policy to have the saloon lights off in daylight hours unless you entered a tunnel.

There was a convenient ‘train lights’ on/off switch situated at the Guards desk in the brake van but inevitably you sometimes forgot, especially if you had the independent brake van lights on.

You've just answered my question! I thought the driver did it.
Was it like a MK1/2 coach stock etc with a T-Key and 'on and off' buttons?

 

[hexagon789]

You've just answered my question! I thought the driver did it.
Was it like a MK1/2 coach stock etc with a T-Key and 'on and off' buttons?

Not sure about DMMUs, but Thumpers have a switch in the equipment cabinet next to the ETH fork.

 

[KevinTurvey]

I wish they would provide dimmed lighting on a coach or two of our longer Inter City trains for later evenings.

From the days of travelling on Mk1 compartments which had almost no light it was quite fascinating travelling through open countryside with a full moon, with the sparks from the electric or sometimes the sea of orange sparks from the loco during braking. Sometimes if you asked the guard would knock the lights off for you in a coach if no one objected.

 

[hexagon789]

On Mk 1 and i believe Mk2 the lighting was powered from batteries which were charged from a dynamo when the train was in motion. Therefore ETH not required for lighting

On all Mk1 and early Mk2 or just steam heat ones?

 

[delt1c]

On all Mk1 and early Mk2 or just steam heat ones?

All Mk 1 and at least up to Mk 2 c. Heating on them has no link to lighting

 

[randyrippley]

Best trip with lights out was Metro Cammell DMU Llandudno Junction to Blaenau Festiniog in the 1990s. Being sat behind the driver was quite exciting in the tunnel I recall.


Yes, the 1903 FO to from Paddington to Worcester was often 50 hauled plus Mk 1 corridor stock. Often lights were on only if passengers switched them on, so if they were off you got a great view of the Cotswolds at dusk, and frequently saw deer and other wildlife.

On first generation Dmus they almost always put the lights on for Old Hill tunnel between Birmingham and Worcester but almost never for Rainbow Hill Tunnel just by Shrub Hill station.

Are you sure?
As a rule mk1 & 2 compartment stock had lights on all the time, the switch over the door was a dim/full setting. Additionally there were individually switched on/off reading lamps.
Open stock had the lights full on all the time

There was a similar thread to this six months or so ago

 

[peteb]

Are you sure?
As a rule mk1 & 2 compartment stock had lights on all the time, the switch over the door was a dim/full setting. Additionally there were individually switched on/off reading lamps.
Open stock had the lights full on all the time

There was a similar thread to this six months or so ago

Pretty certain it was as you suggest: lights on dim via flick switch, no reading lights on. Meant a pretty good view out until it got properly dark. Later on those same Mk1s got refurbished with the NSE livery, striped seats and fluorescent lighting which made them very bright inside at night. Safer perhaps but not so cosy or sleep inducing!

 

[yorksrob]

Pretty certain it was as you suggest: lights on dim via flick switch, no reading lights on. Meant a pretty good view out until it got properly dark. Later on those same Mk1s got refurbished with the NSE livery, striped seats and fluorescent lighting which made them very bright inside at night. Safer perhaps but not so cosy or sleep inducing!

Indeed. Although donkey stripe was quite a nice moquette design.

Went on the train from Kirkby Stephen East a couple of years ago. Was a LSE compartment but it had a short flourescent tube fitted. My thought at the time was that it was better than a modern train, but not as good as the 2nd class compartment on a CIG or VEP.

 

[Richard Scott]

All Mk 1 and at least up to Mk 2 c. Heating on them has no link to lighting

I would imagine there are axle driven generators on all loco hauled stock. Been on trains formed of mk 2d/e/f or mk 3 stock hauled for reasonable distances with no heat locos and light remained on. Happy to be corrected on that. Think advent of central door locking required an ETH (later ETS) fitted loco to prevent batteries going flat? Still remember no heat locos hauling said stock well into 1990s, though.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I would gladly pay for that.

The night time scenery is compelling in its own way, but with flourescent lighting, one rarely gets to see it from a train.

Several years ago, Grand Central ran a "Halloween Special" from Bradford Interchange to Doncaster and back which had the lighting turned down. It only ran one year though, presumably because of safety concerns.

The seated coaches of SNCF sleepers have the lighting turned off overnight, but the vestibule lights stay on and the partitions are glass, so unless you're in the centre of the vehicle a sleeping mask might be needed.

 

[yorksrob]

Several years ago, Grand Central ran a "Halloween Special" from Bradford Interchange to Doncaster and back which had the lighting turned down. It only ran one year though, presumably because of safety concerns.

The seated coaches of SNCF sleepers have the lighting turned off overnight, but the vestibule lights stay on and the partitions are glass, so unless you're in the centre of the vehicle a sleeping mask might be needed.

That would have been excellent - even better with a run down to The Cross though!