Russia-Ukraine war: Poland

[railfan99]

I considered visiting Poland on a Eurailpass this year but as usual for those living a long way away, have 'run out of discretionary time'. A convenient excuse, especially since the sole remaining route with mainline steam is under threat.

For you geopolitical experts, I was speaking recently to a Pole I know well in Melbourne, Australia.

He's conservative politically but said he perceived Poland was 'too close' to the USA. He didn't disagree when I said 'could eventually the Russian bear react adversely and somehow punish Poland?'

I have no idea what may occur: you ladies and gents are closer to (for want of a better word) the action.

Is a railway enthusiast unwise to visit Poland (by rail, obviously), or are some sectors the only parts a prudent individual would consider 'off limits'.

Those of us who've been to supposedly dodgy nations or localities may be various shades of risk takers. However being injured or worse in a conflict setting is something I daresay no one wishes to occur.

Is this war likely, on balance, to ever deleteriously affect the extensive Polish rail network (including international trains to/from nations such as Germany) or is that an unlikely, or extreme, dramatisation?

I've read articles suggesting Putin is not just 'bad' but 'mad' as well. Again, from the southern hemisphere, too hard to assess.

 

[ainsworth74]

Is a railway enthusiast unwise to visit Poland (by rail, obviously), or are some sectors the only parts a prudent individual would consider 'off limits'.

I'm not quite sure what you see as going on in Poland but I'm not aware of any reason not to visit Poland at the present time. It might be wise to avoid areas close to the Ukrainian border in case of repeat of the incident when a Ukrainian air defence missile crashed in Poland and killed a farmer but I'm not sure I'd consider them off-limits. The only specific warning from the Foreign Office that I can see on Poland is that you shouldn't attempt to cross the Polish-Ukrainian border as there have been military strikes within Ukraine close to the border and travel to Ukraine is advised against for all reasons.

Is this war likely, on balance, to ever deleteriously affect the extensive Polish rail network (including international trains to/from nations such as Germany) or is that an unlikely, or extreme, dramatisation?

Who knows? I don't currently foresee any risk of invasion of Poland and I have to say the general tone of your post does come across as being quite over the top. But perhaps it feels different to those who are in Poland. @Cloud Strife I believe lives in Poland and might be able to offer more of an opnion.

 

[farci]

Your own government's advice on Poland travel matches most European governments - do not travel to Ukraine and stay clear of delicate border areas eg: Belarus
https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destinations/europe/poland

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Border areas will be sensitive, and the rail aspect is important as much western-supplied military equipment and supplies will be crossing the border.
The refugee situation seems to have stabilised, but with some Ukrainians still leaving and returning after spells in the west.
Two locations which keep being mentioned are Przemysl and Rzeszow in the south-east.
The former is the main civilian crossing point (rail and road), the latter has the closest airport to the border and is in heavy use by the military.
Broad-gauge freight routes into Poland (as far as Katowice) are also in use.

Further north there is heightened security on the Belarus and Russian borders with Poland and the Baltic states (all members of NATO).
Belarus has been making belligerent noises towards Poland.
Moldova, with a Russian minority, is also sensitive.
But none of this appears to be affecting normal Polish/Baltic life, or that of other eastern states with a Ukraine border (SK, HU, RO).

Cross-border trains to Belarus and Russia were an early casualty of the war, but otherwise things are normal.
Flights have adjusted to the closed airspace leading to longer flight times in many cases.
Some Asian carriers are still overflying Russia/Belarus (while avoiding the war zone).

 

[Cloud Strife]

But perhaps it feels different to those who are in Poland. @Cloud Strife I believe lives in Poland and might be able to offer more of an opnion.

Yes, yes I do.

In general, there's zero threat to Poland. The view here is that Russia is incompetent and that they wouldn't last more than a few days. You wouldn't even know there's a war going on, except for the frequent military transports on the transit motorways and large amount of aviation traffic in Rzeszów.

What should be mentioned is that there's still an illegal border zone being enforced on parts of the Belarusian border, but this will be of zero interest to tourists as it's in an area with barely any infrastructure.

Otherwise, you can travel to places like Chełm, Terespol and Przemyśl with zero problems whatsoever. Even Ukraine is safe in the western border areas as long as you stay away from important infrastructure.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

A convenient excuse, especially since the sole remaining route with mainline steam is under threat.

There has been no steam in Wolsztyn since last year due to lack of any serviceable steam locomotives. It is supposed to resume later this year once the overhaul of at least one locomotive is complete.
Additionally, the founder of the organisation which helped save the operation there by arranging for enthusasists to pay to have a footplate experience on the service trains sadly died a few weeks ago and his business will be wound up. To what extent that affects the future of the steam operation I am not sure.

 

[dutchflyer]

Have been (dutchman myself) 2x to PL this year and 1 time last year, for just a few days-passing by and did not see or noted any real difference compared to previous visits-except the usual: prices gone up, the country developes itself further. Have not been close to UKR border (Krakow the furthest last yr).
What you note in transport-my interest is wider and in fact more aimed at trams and buses as trains: many, many more coaches running to Ukrayna, to be seen in about any larger busstation.
Whilst now sitting in a german train: in a ride before I spoke a longer time with 2 ladies from Ukrayna, who worked in POland till last year and then moved to Germany, as they get more help there. They had gone to work in PL -for better pay- before this nasty war started.

 

[rg177]

I've been to Poland multiple times this year, and there's no reason not to visit unless you decide to be daft and start mucking around in sensitive border areas.

I've been through Białystok, Warsaw, Kraków etc without problems. The only thing you might notice is more Ukrainian license plates around on the roads.

Last year there was a noticeable number of volunteers around stations to assist refugees, but that has slowly wained through this year.

 

[JonasB]

He's conservative politically but said he perceived Poland was 'too close' to the USA. He didn't disagree when I said 'could eventually the Russian bear react adversely and somehow punish Poland?'

How would Russia punish Poland? I don't think Putin is stupid enough to mess with a Nato country

 

[Zamracene749]

I've just returned from a two week rail/tram bash in Poland, it is still a fabulous, safe place to visit.
Apart from that stray UZ missile, the closest any hostile armament has come is probably L'viv, a fair way over the border.
If Russia were to attack Poland, it would be an attack on a NATO nation. One nation is an attack on all nations. Hopefully, even Putin isn't crazy enough to start a word war. If he did, I'm guessing the land based nukes would be flying straight over most of Europe- you would probably be in more danger in the UK!

 

[AndrewE]

I guess Poland needs its income from tourists as much or more than it ever has.
I might avoid the middle east currently but would not hesitate to recommend the areas of our last trip to Poland (Gdansk/three cities and then Elblag for the super canal trip up the waterwheel-worked inclined planes, book online before you go. https://www.zegluga.com.pl/en/)
A few years before that we went to Cracow and the Vieliska salt mine which was stunning too. Good tram rides everywhere as well!
A

p.s. we are looking for a September holiday destination, thanks for the reminder... I would happily go back to both areas!

 

[StephenHunter]

Went myself in June. Perfectly safe.

The Kyiv sleeper service is still running daily, attached to a Polish seated rake as far as the Ukrainian border station of Jagodin. The latter, which I went on, was full and standing.

Otwock is a bug-infested dump of a station though.

 

[Chester1]

How would Russia punish Poland? I don't think Putin is stupid enough to mess with a Nato country

Sounds like he is a "don't poke the bear" Russian sympathiser type. They never give specifics of what Russia will actually do. Russia isn't going to start a nuclear apocalypse and they would get smashed to pieces in a conventional assault on NATO.

I would be interested to know what the accommodation situation is like. Is the refugee situation still affecting price and availability of hotels?

 

[StephenHunter]

Sounds like he is a "don't poke the bear" Russian sympathiser type. They never give specifics of what Russia will actually do. Russia isn't going to start a nuclear apocalypse and they would get smashed to pieces in a conventional assault on NATO.

I would be interested to know what the accommodation situation is like. Is the refugee situation still affecting price and availability of hotels?

Didn’t notice anything myself, but there was an active refugee welcome centre at Lublin main station and plenty of signage in Warsaw.

 

[1D54]

The Kyiv sleeper service is still running daily, attached to a Polish seated rake as far as the Ukrainian border station of Jagodin. The latter, which I went on, was full and standing.

World leaders/politians and members of the press have caught an overnighter from Polish border to Kiev. I saw on the news last year that Moscow are told in advance so as not to cause a major diplomatic incident by having a pop at it though I'm not sure if there is any truth to this. Are there any normal public services from Kiev to the west?

 

[rg177]

World leaders/politians and members of the press have caught an overnighter from Polish border to Kiev. I saw on the news last year that Moscow are told in advance so as not to cause a major diplomatic incident by having a pop at it though I'm not sure if there is any truth to this. Are there any normal public services from Kiev to the west?

There is also a through carriage (or carriages, it might be several) from Wien to Kyiv via Budapest and Zahony/Chop.

There's also still the regular Zahony-Chop and Košice-Mukachevo services too.

 

[Merseysider]

Travelled around Poland, Moldova and Romania recently and not noticed anything out of the ordinary.

Only exception seemed to be a (complete?) removal of PL-BY cross border trains and a reduction in buses going over the border, but apparently still possible via certain travel agents for tourists wanting to book tours eg from Warsaw to Brest.

Welcome centres for refugees were well signposted but no overcrowding in stations nor difficulty getting hotel rooms etc. And not a single person I met spoke of the war - it seems to be mostly in the back of peoples' minds but there was certainly some very explicit anti-Putin graffiti every now and again

Was also in Vienna a couple months back and noticed the sleeper train to Kiev was advertised on the oebb website, but the departure boards at Wien Hbf showed it as only going as far as the border station (I forgot the name) - perhaps just a "false destination".

Nothing to worry about, I'd say.

 

[railfan99]

Thank you all. Great information, and gives confidence for a possible visit in 2024, assuming the situation doesn't deteriorate.

Sounds like he is a "don't poke the bear" Russian sympathiser typ

My friend isn't a 'Russian sympathiser', but one who migrated from Poland to Australia in 1980s. Hates communism, but says he's a realist. I assume he believes Russia has ambitions to take back some areas/nations, but haven't discussed that.

 

[Doppelganger]

My friend isn't a 'Russian sympathiser', but one who migrated from Poland to Australia in 1980s. Hates communism, but says he's a realist. I assume he believes Russia has ambitions to take back some areas/nations, but haven't discussed that.

Russia is attempting to do that right now in Ukraine.

That 2 week blitzkrieg Putin was attempting is fast approaching an 18 month campaign.

I live in Poland and can tell you that tourism hasn't stopped. In some cases I'd wish it had as over tourism is a thing (think Barcelona).

Accommodation prices have all gone up due to the influx of refugees and then due to inflationary pressure and interest rate rises.

I would also add that your friend has a view of Poland (and Russia), from 40 years ago and maybe they aren't the best person to ask what a country is like today.

Poland has changed unrecognisably, so best to come and see it for yourself.

 

[railfan99]

I would also add that your friend has a view of Poland (and Russia), from 40 years ago and maybe they aren't the best person to ask what a country is like today.

Poland has changed unrecognisably, so best to come and see it for yourself.

He regularly makes the 30 hour trek from southern climes, and is about to patronise Emirates to again do so.

But you're on the ground. I visited Krakow more than a decade ago and enjoyed it, riding trams, but apart from that, no experience of that nation.

 

[gysev]

Just a warning for railfans visiting Poland: a new law that was recently introduced forbids taking photographs of "strategic installations". This includes railway infrastructure and in some places, new signs have been placed:

Tabliczka zakaz fotografowania powróci. Sejm przyjął przepisy

Sejm przyjął nowelizację prawa, która zaostrza kary za szpiegostwo i zakazuje fotografowania oznaczonych obiektów ważnych dla bezpieczeństwa państwa i infrastruktury krytycznej. Grozić będzie za to nawet areszt.

www.rynek-kolejowy.pl

Some German railfans have recently been detained for several hours.

 

[dvboy]

Visited Gdansk in March, lovely place.
You have nothing to worry about.

 

[Parjon]

Thank you all. Great information, and gives confidence for a possible visit in 2024, assuming the situation doesn't deteriorate.


My friend isn't a 'Russian sympathiser', but one who migrated from Poland to Australia in 1980s. Hates communism, but says he's a realist. I assume he believes Russia has ambitions to take back some areas/nations, but haven't discussed that.

As Poland is a NATO member, any attack on them would mean serious implications for everyone - including in Australia -. anyway.

Live your life freely. Not as the evil Russian regime wants you to.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

There are daytime trains to Lviv and Kyiv from Przemyśl Główny, which is also the terminus for the VIP trains.

​

 

[StephenHunter]

Just a warning for railfans visiting Poland: a new law that was recently introduced forbids taking photographs of "strategic installations". This includes railway infrastructure and in some places, new signs have been placed:

Tabliczka zakaz fotografowania powróci. Sejm przyjął przepisy

Sejm przyjął nowelizację prawa, która zaostrza kary za szpiegostwo i zakazuje fotografowania oznaczonych obiektów ważnych dla bezpieczeństwa państwa i infrastruktury krytycznej. Grozić będzie za to nawet areszt.

www.rynek-kolejowy.pl

Some German railfans have recently been detained for several hours.

The FCDO advice when I went mentioned something like that, but I never saw any signs.

 

[railfan99]

If one does travel to Poland, what are the three best branchlines?

I define 'best' as preferably older loco hauled stock or elderly railcars, plus good to reasonable scenery, and preferably multiple daily trains each way, not just one a day. We peasants from another hemisphere regard villages that lack horrible 20th/21st century apartments (or same from the era of Stalin, at least in the central area of the village) as 'good scenry' as they're different to what's experienced at home.

 

[Zamracene749]

If you want older loco hauled stock, look for trains classed as TLK. On PolRegio services, there are still ancient (classic) EN57 EMUs working around the country, but they are disappearing quickly, the Wroclaw- Kluczbork-Czestochowa line is a good bet.
The following TLK services are worked by SKPL, originally an enthusiast based group using EN84 diesel units (originally German DB614) dating from the early 1970s. These are quite rare nowadays and are probably the last diesel units anywhere in Europe where you can ride in a first class compartment, in the motor coach, with a proper half drop opening window The routes are mostly pretty scenic too.

*​	TLK 30110/1	Wetlina	Kraków Gł. 19:23 - Tarnów - Jasło - Zagórz 23:45
*​	TLK 30112/3	Bieszczady	Kraków Gł. 9:00 - Tarnów - Jasło - Zagórz 13:08
*​	TLK 30160/1	Połoniny	Kraków Gł. 7:12 - Tarnów - Jasło - Zagórz - Łupków 13:05
*​	TLK 30162/3	Bieszczady	Kraków Gł. 9:00 - Tarnów - Jasło - Uherce - Zagórz - Łupków 15:20
*​	TLK 33110/1	Wetlina	Zagórz 4:43 - Jasło - Tarnów - Kraków Gł. 9:10
*​	TLK 33112/3	Bieszczady	Zagórz 15:49 - Jasło - Tarnów - Kraków Gł. 20:06
*​	TLK 33160/1	Połoniny	Łupków 16:54 - Zagórz - Jasło - Tarnów - Kraków Gł. 22:37
*​	TLK 33162/3	Bieszczady	Łupków 13:40 - Zagórz - Uherce - Jasło - Tarnów - Kraków Gł. 20:06
*​	TLK 36102/3	Sudety	Kraków Gł. 7:04 - Mysłowice - Katowice - ... - Jaworzyna Śląska - Wałbrzych Miasto - Jelenia Góra 13:46
*​	TLK 36110/1	Wetlina	Zagórz 4:43 - Jasło - Tarnów - ... - Opole Gł. - Kamieniec Ząbkowicki - Kłodzko Miasto 13:41
*​	TLK 63102/3	Sudety	Jelenia Góra 14:17 - Wałbrzych Miasto - Jaworzyna Śląska - ... - Katowice - Mysłowice - Kraków Gł. 21:10
*​	TLK 63110/1	Wetlina	Kłodzko Miasto 14:48 - Kamieniec Ząbkowicki - Opole Gł. - ... - Tarnów - Jasło - Zagórz 23:45

(List taken from vagonweb.cz a treasure trove of mainland Europe information).


As regards scenic lines, stand out for me are the ones in the south of the country ie to Novy Sacz, Zakopane (if it's open yet after major works), Zwardon, Kudova Zdoj and Szklarka Poreba.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Just a warning for railfans visiting Poland: a new law that was recently introduced forbids taking photographs of "strategic installations". This includes railway infrastructure and in some places, new signs have been placed:

This is only if signs are present. The law is quite restrictive, requiring a lot of signage. I haven't seen any signs in the flesh yet, and I suspect that they'll only be used to keep people away from inconvenient things for the government, such as mass cutting of forests.

I live in Poland and can tell you that tourism hasn't stopped. In some cases I'd wish it had as over tourism is a thing (think Barcelona).

It seems worse than ever. I don't (and won't ever) go to the Polish seaside during summer, and I'm sitting in Croatia now enjoying the summer, but it's very true that Poland is really struggling with mass tourism now. The biggest problem for the OP is likely to be getting a seat on the train!

Some German railfans have recently been detained for several hours.

This is not really because of the law, but because of the problems within the police. In short, the police are short staffed, poorly trained and their reputation is in tatters for various reasons. The end result is that they simply don't know the law properly, and they're overreacting in situations where a light touch is needed.

Only exception seemed to be a (complete?) removal of PL-BY cross border trains and a reduction in buses going over the border, but apparently still possible via certain travel agents for tourists wanting to book tours eg from Warsaw to Brest.

Yes, PL-BY travel is really reduced now. Belarus is offering a very generous visa-free policy for Poles, but for some reason, it hasn't encouraged them to visit.

Having said that, the ending of the PL-BY cross border train in Terespol is really harmful to normal people. I have a friend who has a grandmother in Brest, but they live in Terespol. They used to be able to hop across on the train for the day, now the only realistic option is the car because buses are so irregular. And the border crossing for cars is a pain, so they end up spending most of the day just waiting in queues.

 

[StephenHunter]

Having said that, the ending of the PL-BY cross border train in Terespol is really harmful to normal people. I have a friend who has a grandmother in Brest, but they live in Terespol. They used to be able to hop across on the train for the day, now the only realistic option is the car because buses are so irregular. And the border crossing for cars is a pain, so they end up spending most of the day just waiting in queues.

Remember that wasn't the border at all until 1945; frontiers often will cut off families like that.