Sad state of 18000 "KEROSENE CASTLE" at Didcot

[John Luxton]

Currently on holiday in South Wales but looking for somewhere dryer whizzed over to GWS Didcot on the train and had a pleasant day.

This is my first visit to Didcot since 1983 and first time I have seen the pioneering gas turbine.

However, this historically important loco just looks completely unloved the body work rusting away. I bought a Didcot guide book and there is a photo of the loco in it and it looks smart and no rust. Why is it left in the open? Why no body repairs?

Could it not be refurbished and perhaps the interior developed as a display of the GWR's unfulfilled plans as it did feature in the book Next Station republished in the 1970s as the GWR's Last Look Forward?

When I last visited in 1983 the Broad Gauge display was still in development. Now that is looking uncared for. The two replicas are out of action.

Here we have key locos from the beginning and end of the GWR looking very unloved.

Surely they deserve better?

I did have a good day there today but just felt these things along with the decaying traverser loco made the place look sad.

 

[P Binnersley]

Apparently 18000 is due some tender loving care soon.

In early 2022 it was announced that work would begin on a two year conservation project to repair corrosion on the bodywork, and return the locomotive to the black and silver livery it carried when first in service.

18000 | Didcot Railway Centre

Living Museum Of The Great Western Railway

didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk

 

[John Luxton]

Apparently 18000 is due some tender loving care soon.

18000 | Didcot Railway Centre

Living Museum Of The Great Western Railway

didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk

Oh that is good news shame it got into such a state in first place.

 

[pdeaves]

Why is it left in the open?

There's a finite amount of covered space. Presumably other things were 'in the way'!

 

[Peter C]

For those interested, this is what the engine looked like when I visited Didcot last (October 2021):

(Alt text: all four pictures show 18000, a green locomotive, sat by a turntable, in a fairly 'worn' condition, as described in post #1. The engine has several places where rust can be seen, but from a distance it doesn't look too bad. There is an orange band running down each side of the engine, with a faded British Railways crest at one end on each side.)

-Peter

 

[a_c_skinner]

This is the sad story of a lot of the UK's large historical artefacts. Look at the Mersey class 502 for an example but also some large airliners which deteriorated to the point of scrapping after preservation. There must be other examples. We need a national big shed society.

 

[John Webb]

As someone involved in a museum, albeit much, much smaller than Didcot, may I gently point out that most museums had considerable problems in the last two years, being closed roughly March 2020 - May 2021 to the public, and for at least half that time to volunteers and staff as well, with only very limited access allowed for security and safety checks. So many projects have stalled or otherwise been delayed as a consequence!

 

[Bessie]

There are plans to reactivate the Broad Gauge but as ever funds are finite. Didcot's focus is currently on repairing the Water Tower. 18000 is owned by the Pete Waterman Trust.

 

[trebor79]

We went in 2019. 18000 was in the turntable then, so it is at least in good enough condition to be moved.
I didn't think the site looked sad. It was a serene the broad guage wasn't operating (and hadn't for some time by the looks of it) but riding the steam railmotor was a new experience.
Quite old fashioned in a way, being allowed to wander at will, a bit worn round the edges and homely cooking in the cafe. But I like things being that way. Far rather that than a sanitised Disneyesque experience.

 

[Meole]

As an expensive failure is it worth preserving ? It was built abroad, the technology simply didn't deliver, not everything has to be kept.

 

[John Luxton]

We went in 2019. 18000 was in the turntable then, so it is at least in good enough condition to be moved.
I didn't think the site looked sad. It was a serene the broad guage wasn't operating (and hadn't for some time by the looks of it) but riding the steam railmotor was a new experience.
Quite old fashioned in a way, being allowed to wander at will, a bit worn round the edges and homely cooking in the cafe. But I like things being that way. Far rather that than a sanitised Disneyesque experience.

Don't get me wrong I don't want it sanitised and the ability to wander around almost anywhere is brilliant. Something which seems lost at most other rail heritage sites now unless on a guided tour.

I do wonder how Didcot has not fallen victim to the H&S zealots that have stopped shed visits at almost all other locations.

My comments were just regarding locos which I saw as key to the GWR story early days broad gauge and the plans for the future.

The curious traverser loco is possibly not of great historical significance but it is a curious thing.

I am not trying to have a go at GWS Didcot but just expressing my disappointment at the presentation of a few things.

 

[1Q18]

As an expensive failure is it worth preserving ? It was built abroad, the technology simply didn't deliver, not everything has to be kept.

Just because something turned out to be a bit of a blind alley doesn’t mean it’s not worth preserving, it still has a story to tell.

 

[WAO]

I understand that the proposal is to pay for the body repairs by selling internal non-ferrous internals. If these were "original" then some objection might be made. On the other hand saving the body rather than scrapping the lot has its positive side.

The GWS does however seem to be able to fund very expensive revivals of extinct GWR steam classes and carriage restoration progresses rather sedately.

Didcot is a wonderful experience and achievement, all the same, quite a relief from the H&S nightmares elsewhere.

WAO

 

[Titfield]

I understand that the proposal is to pay for the body repairs by selling internal non-ferrous internals. If these were "original" then some objection might be made. On the other hand saving the body rather than scrapping the lot has its positive side.

The GWS does however seem to be able to fund very expensive revivals of extinct GWR steam classes and carriage restoration progresses rather sedately.

Didcot is a wonderful experience and achievement, all the same, quite a relief from the H&S nightmares elsewhere.

WAO

At the risk of sounding cynical, Didcot may have escaped being an H and S Nightmare because (a) no one has made a claim (b) their insurers are taking a more relaxed view of the risk of someone making a claim.

 

[WAO]

...or (c) it isn't actually more unsafe than the normal world outside..

WAO

 

[8A Rail]

This is the sad story of a lot of the UK's large historical artefacts. Look at the Mersey class 502 for an example but also some large airliners which deteriorated to the point of scrapping after preservation. There must be other examples. We need a national big shed society.

The two car Class 502 emu is being slowly restored and under cover. A lot of work has already been carried out but still plenty to do. See: http://www.class502.org.uk May be you are getting confused with the three car Class 503 emu which was outside at Coventry, now Margate but whether any work gets done on it is another matter. Not sure how relevant a Class 503 is to the area of Kent is though but further details of the group looking after it is here: - https://www.hett.org.uk In their blurb, it is clear it be some time before any restoration will take place as they are wishing to use their efforts on the Southern 4 Sub unit!

 

[Towers]

This is the sad story of a lot of the UK's large historical artefacts. Look at the Mersey class 502 for an example but also some large airliners which deteriorated to the point of scrapping after preservation. There must be other examples. We need a national big shed society.

Brilliant! A national museum of 'Big sheds full of massive interesting artefacts' is a definite for when I win the EuroMills!

 

[trebor79]

Brilliant! A national museum of 'Big sheds full of massive interesting artefacts' is a definite for when I win the EuroMills!

You'd enjoy a visit to Bressingham. There's some interesting stuff tucked away in their big sheds, even if the site is a bit ramshackle and you have to walk through what feels like an abandoned conference room to get to the best stuff.

 

[DarloRich]

Surely coin and the lack thereof is the main issue with any maintenance/restoration task. I suspect other, coal powered, machines are the priority.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It’s a shame more cannot be done with 18000. It’s a remarkable survivor from a group of experimental locos where no other survives. I accept it will never be operational but deserves its place in history and be looked after.

18000 is owned by the Pete Waterman Trust.

If that is still the case perhaps he could dip his hand into his pocket.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As an expensive failure is it worth preserving ? It was built abroad, the technology simply didn't deliver, not everything has to be kept.

This.

Sure, this loco was a bit of an experiment at the time, so there's a degree of appeal there I suppose... but as much as I've slightly rolled my eyes at the attempts to preserve a class 315, I'd argue there's more historical value to that than there is to a one-off failed experiment.

 

[Ashley Hill]

This.

Sure, this loco was a bit of an experiment at the time, so there's a degree of appeal there I suppose... but as much as I've slightly rolled my eyes at the attempts to preserve a class 315, I'd argue there's more historical value to that than there is to a one-off failed experiment.

As opposed to the high numbers of 20s,31s,37s,47s and 50s preservered. It’s like saying Rocket should be scrapped because it will never steam again and means little to the modern enthusiast who’d rather see another Pacer preserved.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As opposed to the high numbers of 20s,31s,37s,47s and 50s preservered. It’s like saying Rocket should be scrapped because it will never steam again and means little to the modern enthusiast who’d rather see another Pacer preserved.

It's nothing at all like that.

Gas Turbine technology was a dead-end experiment. Rocket quite clearly wasn't, otherwise this website wouldn't exist.

Yes, some classes have fared better in preservation than others, but I'm of the opinion that the priority for preservation should be successful designs that had a big impact on the industry, not weird tangents that didn't work.

I wouldn't scrap it now just to spite those who value it, but I won't shed a tear if it ends up being cut either.

 

[Titfield]

...or (c) it isn't actually more unsafe than the normal world outside..

WAO

though judging by the growth of ambulance chasing lawyers whose advertising budgets must run into the millions, the world out there is getting more and more unsafe.

 

[Towers]

It's nothing at all like that.

Gas Turbine technology was a dead-end experiment. Rocket quite clearly wasn't, otherwise this website wouldn't exist.

Yes, some classes have fared better in preservation than others, but I'm of the opinion that the priority for preservation should be successful designs that had a big impact on the industry, not weird tangents that didn't work.

I wouldn't scrap it now just to spite those who value it, but I won't shed a tear if it ends up being cut either.

There is surely a place in 'the story' for things that were tried but not a success? Admittedly not a huge place, but one surviving locomotive seems about right? I'd venture it's significantly more a worthy part of that story than a made-up steam loco that was built last year or whatever it was; it's a personal thing of course but I find the likes of Tornado, Lady of Legend etc hold little to no interest to me.

I've not visited Didcot in years, but I'd find an exhibit like this to be very much of interest amongst a sea of all rather similar steam engines, as I'm sure would many others. 18000 is a dramatic looking thing, its appearance is as intriguing as its history. Certainly worth looking after, I would suggest!

 

[D6130]

Gas Turbine technology was a dead-end experiment.

Really? It may have been in the UK, but what about the SNCF RTG units which ran very successfully and efficiently - albeit expensively, fuel and pollution-wise - on French Inter-City and cross-country services for many years? I believe a derivative was also used in the USA for a while.

 

[TheBeard]

It is the end note of the GWRs locomotive policy of 112 years of amazing progress

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There is surely a place in 'the story' for things that were tried but not a success? Admittedly not a huge place, but one surviving locomotive seems about right? I'd venture it's significantly more a worthy part of that story than a made-up steam loco that was built last year or whatever it was; it's a personal thing of course but I find the likes of Tornado, Lady of Legend etc hold little to no interest to me.

I've not visited Didcot in years, but I'd find an exhibit like this to be very much of interest amongst a sea of all rather similar steam engines, as I'm sure would many others. 18000 is a dramatic looking thing, its appearance is as intriguing as its history. Certainly worth looking after, I would suggest!

There's a place for all sorts of things, if there's the money and time to invest and people prepared to do so. I'm certainly not going to tell others what they're allowed to do with their time and money.

I'm not particularly attached to PEP-derived EMUs, but they worked and were a part of people's daily commutes for decades. 18000 will only ever be a novelty, and the chance of anyone visiting Didcot and reminiscing about using it are miniscule. If people are prepared to put their time and money into saving it, all power to them... but I'd rather have seen a complete 442 saved, as they were pretty successful.

As a comparison, there are currently two projects to revive extinct classes by rebuilding examples from donor locos. The donors being a 37 and a 58. No tears shed over 37372 being turned into a Baby Deltic, as there are dozens of 37s in preservation. I'm less keen on the LMS project using a 58 simply because there are very few 58s in preservation, and most of the extant stored ones are rotting overseas (assuming they haven't been chopped during lockdown).

Really? It may have been in the UK, but what about the SNCF RTG units which ran very successfully and efficiently - albeit expensively, fuel and pollution-wise - on French Inter-City and cross-country services for many years? I believe a derivative was also used in the USA for a while.

How does any of that refute it being a failure? It worked, but was inefficient, expensive and noisy. Ergo, it was dead-end technology.

 

[Towers]

18000 will only ever be a novelty, and the chance of anyone visiting Didcot and reminiscing about using it are miniscule.

Agreed, but I think that misses the point to a degree. A major part of the purpose of a museum is to present history to those from newer generations, to allow people to learn about the past. I think we've hit on the 'crossroads' here of whether the preservation movement falls under that umbrella, or instead exists solely for middle aged blokes to reminisce about Class 37s etc. There is an ever decreasing demographic of people who actually rode behind steam in its heyday and remember doing so, and organisations like the GWS are rightly gearing increasingly towards introducing the past to younger visitors, as the stream of old fellas from the steam days who actually remember it grows ever smaller.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Agreed, but I think that misses the point to a degree. A major part of the purpose of a museum is to present history to those from newer generations, to allow people to learn about the past. I think we've hit on the 'crossroads' here of whether the preservation movement falls under that umbrella, or instead exists solely for middle aged blokes to reminisce about Class 37s etc. There is an ever decreasing demographic of people who actually rode behind steam in its heyday and remember doing so, and organisations like the GWS are rightly gearing increasingly towards introducing the past to younger visitors, as the stream of old fellas from the steam days who actually remember it grows ever smaller.

Absolutely, I agree that in the longer term the preservation movement will need to move with the times... but I can't see this particular locomotive being important in that. As I said, gas turbine was a dead end so there's only limited value in preserving it. The best thing would probably be to restore it cosmetically, move it indoors, maybe even do cutaways to show how the technology was supposed to work, with displays explaining the story of gas turbine traction, and why it didn't catch on. Gutting the insides to save the outside doesn't do that- to the untrained eye the loco just looks like another early diesel.