Sandhills

[Djgr]

That area has history of objecting. It’s an enclosed estate of small, low density housing from the 90s that is in the edge of an industrial area and Liverpools commercial district. Proposed tall buildings get objected to because “too tall” and more industrial gets objected too because nobody wants to live next to a business.

They would benefit from a station, but they wouldn’t want the foot traffic entering their special little area to catch a train.

The Eldonian Village has an interesting history, although now somewhat troubled.

Maybe the airport extension is too much of an ask given the lower potential passenger numbers than a Bramley Moore Dock to Pier Head shuttle, but regular dredging for a service that could carry up to 3,600 passengers to and from the game shouldn't be a big ask (especially if you increased that frequency even more with more boats and another landing stage at the Pier Head end, should the initial trial be expensive).

Liverpool's roads and railways are absolutely jam-packed on match days, and the Mersey is a natural resource that should be used to transport passengers in a more environmentally-friendly way to and from games. You could probably even charge a premium fare and make it a very profitable operation after a few years.

It does seem a shame to be so close to the river and not utilise it. I only typically see it from "across the water" and so perhaps it is not as close as it appears?

 

[childwallblues]

Why would local residents object to a station serving their community? Especially considering that area is almost a public transport desert.

They probably would not as bus services in the area are poor.

 

[AlastairFraser]

It does seem a shame to be so close to the river and not utilise it. I only typically see it from "across the water" and so perhaps it is not as close as it appears?

It is very close to the Mersey, but, as the member above noted, that part of the river would need some dredging due to the lack of recent use.

 

[Prime586]

Maybe the airport extension is too much of an ask given the lower potential passenger numbers than a Bramley Moore Dock to Pier Head shuttle, but regular dredging for a service that could carry up to 3,600 passengers to and from the game shouldn't be a big ask (especially if you increased that frequency even more with more boats and another landing stage at the Pier Head end, should the initial trial be expensive).

Someone (Everton, Peel or the Council) would have to come up with the money. The new landing stage and gangway at Woodside oost £9m, so add on another couple of million for the quayside works for it to connect to. If you don't want to impact the existing ferry operations you would need a second ferry - the new Mersey Ferry is going to cost at least £20m (you can't just use any old boat, it has to be capable of handling the tidal currents and swells found in the Mersey, and the football season runs through the seasons when you get the worst weather), which outside of matchdays would probably be laid up as the existing ferry is enough to handle the commuter and tourist trade.

The current landing stage at the Pier Head only has a single berth as well, as Merseytravel had reduced the service to a single ferry operating a triangle route by the time the 1975 landing stage sank for the last time in 2006. You would also need to pay the crew overtime on weekday matches, as ferry operations finish around 7pm.

That's before you get onto any dredging that's required. The area from Sandon Dock to Salisbury Dock has a depth at low tide of 8-8.5 feet (the same as the draught of the current ferry) from 5m out from the dock wall to 250m out into the main channel of the river. There is also a 2m diameter pipeline on the river bed that runs 250m out into the main channel of the river immediately to the north (from the former Sandon Dock gates), carrying the outfall from Merseyside's biggest sewage treatment works next door to the stadium (Peel were presumably very happy they found a sucker to take on the Bramley-Moore site, as it was going to be a difficult sell for leisure or residential developments). That would be a hazard for any dredging operations and ferry nevigation at low tides.

You can see why they have gone for the cheap option of running buses from Liverpool One.

 

[AntoniC]

Having experience of walking round the area let me tell you that its a public transport desert.
No busses (currently) run there and the only thing there for transport is Sandhills Station.
If they start running busses I womder where they will run to/from ?
Also will the busses run on non match days ?

 

[Prime586]

Having experience of walking round the area let me tell you that its a public transport desert.
No busses (currently) run there and the only thing there for transport is Sandhills Station.
If they start running busses I womder where they will run to/from ?
Also will the busses run on non match days ?

The Soccerbuses will be the 939 from Bootle Strand bus station, 929 from Liverpool One bus station and 919 from Commutation Row to stops on Great Howard St./Derby Rd., and only on matchdays.

 

[AntoniC]

The Soccerbuses will be the 939 from Bootle Strand bus station, 929 from Liverpool One bus station and 919 from Commutation Row to stops on Great Howard St./Derby Rd., and only on matchdays.

Thank you

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Interesting all this discussion about Bramley-Moore dock when it is actually Anfield which is the public transport nightmare. How well do the 917 to the city centre and the Soccerbus to Sandhills actually cope with 60,000 people all leaving at the same time? How many Liverpool fans actually walk instead?

Goodison is less than a mile from Kirkdale which just about copes with only 4 four-coach tph after most matches. The 919 & the Soccerbus have, in my experience, become less reliable over the last couple of years.

Sandhills isn't far from BMD and will have at least 8 tph to the city centre, more on Saturday afternoons, and many Everton fans will choose to walk back from their new ground into town. So I don't foresee many problems.

 

[AntoniC]

Interesting all this discussion about Bramley-Moore dock when it is actually Anfield which is the public transport nightmare. How well do the 917 to the city centre and the Soccerbus to Sandhills actually cope with 60,000 people all leaving at the same time? How many Liverpool fans actually walk instead?

Goodison is less than a mile from Kirkdale which just about copes with only 4 four-coach tph after most matches. The 919 & the Soccerbus have, in my experience, become less reliable over the last couple of years.

Sandhills isn't far from BMD and will have at least 8 tph to the city centre, more on Saturday afternoons, and many Everton fans will choose to walk back from their new ground into town. So I don't foresee many problems.

As a Liverpool fan who goes to Anfield by public transport its actually quite easy for me to get to and from Anfield.
I get the train from Southport to Sandhills (and back) then catch the Soccerbus (to and from ) Sandhills.
The 917 as they fill up runs from Liverpool City Centre to just outside the Kop , on the way back the 917 queue up and then return to the City Centre as they fill up.
The big issue is that the trains home can just be a 4 car 777 set AND on a Sunday the service is currently every 30 minutes - my dad and stepmum went to the Wolves game at Anfield and complained that the train home was crush loaded as it was only a 4 car 777 set.

 

[M28361M]

The big issue is that the trains home can just be a 4 car 777 set AND on a Sunday the service is currently every 30 minutes - my dad and stepmum went to the Wolves game at Anfield and complained that the train home was crush loaded as it was only a 4 car 777 set.

This is the real problem - Merseyrail can't or won't boost capacity on match days. For Saturday afternoon kickoffs it's manageable as the 15-minute frequency is just about adequate, but evening and Sunday games can be a problem with overcrowding and passengers left behind.

It's not just a poor experience for match-goers, but a miserable time for other passengers too. My sister often comes with her kids to visit us at the weekend and she now checks the football fixtures and avoids travelling two hours before kick off and after final whistle, as being squashed in a train with hundreds of other people is not good when travelling with young children.

No busses (currently) run there and the only thing there for transport is Sandhills Station.

A regular bus service is needed; the area is a regeneration zone and better transport links would undoubtedly give it a boost, and help stave off some of the complaints about the new parking restrictions that have just been introduced.

Has there been a lack of joined-up thinking? Have Liverpool City Council developed the area without much thought for the public transport, which is Liverpool City Region's responsibility.

 

[childwallblues]

Someone (Everton, Peel or the Council) would have to come up with the money. The new landing stage and gangway at Woodside oost £9m, so add on another couple of million for the quayside works for it to connect to. If you don't want to impact the existing ferry operations you would need a second ferry - the new Mersey Ferry is going to cost at least £20m (you can't just use any old boat, it has to be capable of handling the tidal currents and swells found in the Mersey, and the football season runs through the seasons when you get the worst weather), which outside of matchdays would probably be laid up as the existing ferry is enough to handle the commuter and tourist trade.

The current landing stage at the Pier Head only has a single berth as well, as Merseytravel had reduced the service to a single ferry operating a triangle route by the time the 1975 landing stage sank for the last time in 2006. You would also need to pay the crew overtime on weekday matches, as ferry operations finish around 7pm.

That's before you get onto any dredging that's required. The area from Sandon Dock to Salisbury Dock has a depth at low tide of 8-8.5 feet (the same as the draught of the current ferry) from 5m out from the dock wall to 250m out into the main channel of the river. There is also a 2m diameter pipeline on the river bed that runs 250m out into the main channel of the river immediately to the north (from the former Sandon Dock gates), carrying the outfall from Merseyside's biggest sewage treatment works next door to the stadium (Peel were presumably very happy they found a sucker to take on the Bramley-Moore site, as it was going to be a difficult sell for leisure or residential developments). That would be a hazard for any dredging operations and ferry nevigation at low tides.

You can see why they have gone for the cheap option of running buses from Liverpool One.

Sandon Sewage Treatment Works and Bramley Moore are seperated by Wellington Dock.

 

[Prime586]

Sandon Sewage Treatment Works and Bramley Moore are seperated by Wellington Dock.

United Utilities took over Wellington Dock in 2013 to build an extension to the Sandon Dock Treatment Works to increase it's capacity by 11,000 litres per second. Wellington Dock was filled with concrete piles, rafted over and 8 2-story Sequential Batch Reactors were built on it (the 8 rectangular roofs you can see from the satellite view on Lovecross Lane) It was opened by Princess Anne in 2016.

Wellington Dock SBR Sewage Treatment Works:

 

[Mikey C]

As a Liverpool fan who goes to Anfield by public transport its actually quite easy for me to get to and from Anfield.
I get the train from Southport to Sandhills (and back) then catch the Soccerbus (to and from ) Sandhills.
The 917 as they fill up runs from Liverpool City Centre to just outside the Kop , on the way back the 917 queue up and then return to the City Centre as they fill up.
The big issue is that the trains home can just be a 4 car 777 set AND on a Sunday the service is currently every 30 minutes - my dad and stepmum went to the Wolves game at Anfield and complained that the train home was crush loaded as it was only a 4 car 777 set.

As a Londoner, the poor public transport provision for the giant ground of the NW baffles me. Indeed a London club wouldn't have been allowed to expand like Anfield, for example, has, without better arrangements, both from the club, and the local transport provider. My club in London typically gets crowds 1/4 of those Liverpool gets, but all the trains are at least 8 cars long.

Liverpool FC can surely afford to PAY for extra and longer trains on matchday, if Merseyrail aren't willing to do so themselves.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Merseyrail still have issues with running double 777s, it’s why the 507s soldiered on for as long as they did. I may be wrong but I still don’t think they have any double 777 diagrams.

It’s the thick end of a mile from Sandhills to the new stadium, depending where you’re sat in the new ground. For comparison, it’s about 1.5 miles from the new stadium to Pier Head. I’d honestly say that buses from Liverpool One are the best solution. I suspect a lot of people will just walk, at least after the match, just as they do to the Etihad Stadium in Manchester.

 

[Prime586]

As a Londoner, the poor public transport provision for the giant ground of the NW baffles me. Indeed a London club wouldn't have been allowed to expand like Anfield, for example, has, without better arrangements, both from the club, and the local transport provider. My club in London typically gets crowds 1/4 of those Liverpool gets, but all the trains are at least 8 cars long.

Liverpool FC can surely afford to PAY for extra and longer trains on matchday, if Merseyrail aren't willing to do so themselves.

Even if LFC were to offer to pay for more trains, I'm not sure Merseytravel have the rolling stock to operate them.

Merseyrail were originally going to build the North Liverpool Extension Line on the former CLC route through the eastern suburbs, but it never happened. There have also been studies into bringing the Canada Dock Branch back into passenger use, including the former Tuebrook, Walton & Anfield and Spellow stations, which are probably the closest a railway gets to both Anfield and Goodison, but again, nothing has come of it so far.

Merseyrail still have issues with running double 777s, it’s why the 507s soldiered on for as long as they did. I may be wrong but I still don’t think they have any double 777 diagrams.

The 777/0s run double-headed on the Liverpool Central-Southport route (they aren't allowed past Central until the modifications are done for SDO as 8 cars won't fit on some of the platforms between Central and Hunts Cross).

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The problem with Anfield isn't necessarily the trains - it's the buses to get people to the trains and how long you might have to wait for vehicles to return for their second trips. It takes a lot of buses to help clear 60,000 crowds. And with many games kicking off at 8 pm, there is a real risk of missing last trains home after night matches.

I don't go there very often, tickets being difficult to get, but on my penultimate visit I ended up having to walk well over a mile to Sandhills. At least it's downhill. So last time around, I drove only to find the big car park on St Domingo's Road, that I sometimes use for Goodison, closed. Not sure whether this is permanent. So I went further along to the car park at North Liverpool Academy which it took me forever to get out of.

 

[Howardh]

The walk back to the centre of Liverpool isn't exactly pleasant either, and being on the river front restricts the options.

When the stadium was first suggested; I thought of that immediately, with the river you immediately cut access down to 50%, and the Sandhills station simply won't cope (will they close it on match days??). Bing beside a dock, I wonder if there is the option to run ferries that hole hundreds from there southwards and across?


If they use buses (they will have to I suppose) where will they park to drop off/collect fans?

Edit; looking at the satellite, it appears the rail used to be four track instead of two, so could that open up the possibility of a new station on Boundary Street, with controlled entry? That would be a boost for the local residents there, but who would pay for it, Everton, the council or the railway if it could be done??

But it all appears to be short-sighted. Build a stadium which is really difficult to get to and from.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Having personally seen PL and FL football on 164 different grounds, I can confirm that BMD will be one of the easier PL grounds to get away from. It is only half a mile from Sandhills with 8-12 tph in each direction and little more than a mile from Moorfields.

Brighton has no parking at all meaning almost everybody has to use services from a single station (Falmer). Tottenham fans face long queues at White Hart Lane or long walks to Seven Sisters or Tottenham Hale. Brentford fans have a long walk after games as Gunnersbury is closed. Even getting out of their ground takes a long time. Arsenal fans can't use Holloway Road after games. Burnley does have two stations nearby but trains are generally short and only hourly and can get very, very crowded. And Wembley can be a nightmare despite having three stations. More fortunate are clubs like Newcastle and Wolves with grounds in their city centres.

And lots of clubs in the FL have grounds well away from town/city centres with no extra buses provided.

 

[Djgr]

Having personally seen PL and FL football on 164 different grounds, I can confirm that BMD will be one of the easier PL grounds to get away from. It is only half a mile from Sandhills with 8-12 tph in each direction and little more than a mile from Moorfields.

Brighton has no parking at all meaning almost everybody has to use services from a single station (Falmer). Tottenham fans face long queues at White Hart Lane or long walks to Seven Sisters or Tottenham Hale. Brentford fans have a long walk after games as Gunnersbury is closed. Even getting out of their ground takes a long time. Arsenal fans can't use Holloway Road after games. Burnley does have two stations nearby but trains are generally short and only hourly and can get very, very crowded. And Wembley can be a nightmare despite having three stations. More fortunate are clubs like Newcastle and Wolves with grounds in their city centres.

And lots of clubs in the FL have grounds well away from town/city centres with no extra buses provided.

To reiterate Google Maps calculates the stadium as a 30 minute walk from Moorfields (which in the real world we can knock 5 minutes from ).

Certainly this is what I would do rather than messing around at Sandhills.

 

[Scotty]

Tottenham fans face long queues at White Hart Lane or long walks to Seven Sisters or Tottenham Hale.

I used Northumberland Park when I went.

Brentford fans have a long walk after games as Gunnersbury is closed.

Kew Bridge?

 

[childwallblues]

Interesting all this discussion about Bramley-Moore dock when it is actually Anfield which is the public transport nightmare. How well do the 917 to the city centre and the Soccerbus to Sandhills actually cope with 60,000 people all leaving at the same time? How many Liverpool fans actually walk instead?

Goodison is less than a mile from Kirkdale which just about copes with only 4 four-coach tph after most matches. The 919 & the Soccerbus have, in my experience, become less reliable over the last couple of years.

Sandhills isn't far from BMD and will have at least 8 tph to the city centre, more on Saturday afternoons, and many Everton fans will choose to walk back from their new ground into town. So I don't foresee many problems.

You obviously no nothing of public transport in the Anfield area. Bus routes 17 26 and 27 run from the City Centre along Walton Breck Road past the Kop End. Route 19 crosses Walton Breck Road at Sleepers Hill and Route 14 runs down Breck Road passing Oakfield Road. Cross City route 68 runs along Lower Breck Road and Routes 60 and 81 run along the Queens Drive outer ring road within walking distance of the stadium.
And Kirkdale Station actually has 8 trains per hour Monday to Saturday daytime, Sandhills has 12 trains per hour in the same timescale some of which are 8 car.
And finally the new stadium has a capacity of 52888 and will have three bus routes on match days from both Arriva and Stagecoach in addition to local route 54.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Too bad they couldn't build a station in the stadium itself and use the 777/1's.

 

[M28361M]

Merseyrail have announced on their website additional trains will run for the next test event on 23rd March.

Additional services – Before kick-off:

• Ormskirk to Sandhills at 11:51 and 12:21.
• Southport to Sandhills at 11:51 and 12:21.
• Liverpool Central to Sandhills at 12:45 and 13:15.

Additional services - Post-match:

• Sandhills to Ormskirk at 16:20 and 16:50.
• Sandhills to Southport at 16:28 and 16:58.
• Sandhills to Liverpool Central at 16:01 and 16:31.

Hopefully this will help disperse crowds quicker and alleviate the crowding on the platforms seen after the previous event.

They also say 8-car trains will be running although don't say on which services. I believe there are still some stations that 8 car trains can't stop at.

 

[philthetube]

And as I said you then break quality cross platform interchange which is the station's primary role. Football once a week for half the year should not be allowed to damage the station's utility the rest of the time.

If this starts to be mooted I'd be very tempted to set Doug Paulley on them - I'm sure he would be happy to assist in opposing this if he is reading

If a new platform was built couldn't it be used on match days only for boarding only?

 

[AntoniC]

Amusingly enough Merseyrail ran an 8 car train on Tuesday night as Liverpool were playing PSG to cater for fans travelling back to Southport on the Northern Line.
As the match went to extra time and penalties it was empty !

 

[Djgr]

It's also being announced that additional Mersey Ferry services will operate between Seacombe and Pier Head in conjunction with Everton matches.

 

[Kite159]

They also say 8-car trains will be running although don't say on which services. I believe there are still some stations that 8 car trains can't stop at.

Isn't those stations on the section between Hunts Cross & Liverpool, so if the extra trains starts at Sandhills heading to Ormskirk then there won't be an issue.

 

[Pacef8]

You can be confident that mersey ferries will not be running to woodside for a long time . Now that the council have pulled the funding.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Merseyrail are putting on some 8-car trains for Sunday's test event at Bramley-Moore dock.

I wonder why they never considered strengthening trains to & from Kirkdale for Goodison Park games? Kirkdale has only half the trains that Sandhills has and there are 10/20 minute gaps between services after evening and Sunday games. 3- or more recently 4-car sets inevitably become very crowded.

Everton Stadium Test Event 2 - Travel Advice

www.merseyrail.org

Interestingly the crowd will be told to evacuate the ground before the final whistle to simulate a possible future emergency.

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2025/march/17/everton-to-test-evacuation-process-at-second-stadium-test-event/

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseyrail are putting on some 8-car trains for Sunday's test event at Bramley-Moor dock.

I wonder why they never considered strengthening trains to & from Kirkdale for Goodison Park games? Kirkdale has only half the trains that Sandhills has and there are 10/20 minute gaps between services after evening and Sunday games. 3- or more recently 4-car sets inevitably become very crowded.

Because up until fairly recently Headbolt and Ormskirk couldn't take 8 car trains? They can now though I believe.