Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[D365]

Does Scotrail have the option for a follow on order? If they do would that give scope if they wanted to to be able to replace all their 380s with 385s?

Yes they do, and no it doesn't as they have a 27.5 year agreement in place to operate the Class 380s. What would be the point anyway?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Yes they do, and no it doesn't as they have a 27.5 year agreement in place to operate the Class 380s. What would be the point anyway?

Compatibility and flexibility - will a 385 be able to work with a 380 in service?

 

[D365]

Compatibility and flexibility - will a 385 be able to work with a 380 in service?

Seeing as Abellio didn't make compatibility with the 380s a requirement, I don't think it's that big an issue. They'll be working out of different depots on different routes.

 

[Photohunter71]

380's are staying! 385's are a great addition to the fleet, but it depends on funding if they chose to tack on more 385's to the order. I suspect once the initial order has been delivered, it will be a matter of make do and mend. Anyone in the know if those 380's and 385's have been given nicknames at all?

 

[D365]

Abellio has an option with Hitachi for an add-on batch of ten units, but that depends on whether they retain the franchise...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Anyone in the know if those 380's and 385's have been given nicknames at all?

We were discussing the possibility of "aliens" a few weeks ago on here on the grounds of similarity to the space monsters in the films of the same title. I don't think we reached a consensus.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Seeing as Abellio didn't make compatibility with the 380s a requirement, I don't think it's that big an issue. They'll be working out of different depots on different routes.

It'll bite them in the arse one day when they're desperate for an extra unit or a spare unit and the only one available will be the other class

 

[Southsider]

It'll bite them in the arse one day when they're desperate for an extra unit or a spare unit and the only one available will be the other class

A very unlikely scenario as the only issue would be operating them coupled together - as already pointed out they will operate separately. Why pick out 380s as a problem? What about 314 (which will coexist for a brief period), 318, 320, 334? Fact is they won't need to interoperate with any f them.
The follow on order is likely to be required to operate the GSW routes that are to be electrified in CP6 as reported elsewhere.

 

[D365]

It'll bite them in the arse one day when they're desperate for an extra unit or a spare unit and the only one available will be the other class

It's no different to any other train operator with two or more different classes of unit. Are you going to make a stink about c2c's new 387s for example?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

It's no different to any other train operator with two or more different classes of unit. Are you going to make a stink about c2c's new 387s for example?

It's not so bad for c2c as all the units are made by the same manufacturer so would be easier if they wanted to to make the two classes compatible in service.

 

[Photohunter71]

We were discussing the possibility of "aliens" a few weeks ago on here on the grounds of similarity to the space monsters in the films of the same title. I don't think we reached a consensus.

I was going to call them Rat Units, there's a slight similarity to the windscreens which the Rats had, then again, it could depend on their traction motor noises! The 380's to me are "Phasers".

 

[D365]

It's not so bad for c2c as all the units are made by the same manufacturer so would be easier if they wanted to to make the two classes compatible in service.

Or Greater Anglia's new Aventra/Flirt fleet. That's just two examples. Think you're missing my point really.

 

[Altnabreac]

Compatibility and flexibility - will a 385 be able to work with a 380 in service?

They are not being cleared to work the same routes as 380s and will not be based at the same depots.

385s will not be cleared for the Ayrshire or Inverclyde lines. 380s meanwhile are unlikely to work Carstairs, Lanark or North Berwick services once the 385s arrive.

 

[Class377/5]

It's not so bad for c2c as all the units are made by the same manufacturer so would be easier if they wanted to to make the two classes compatible in service.

Er c2c two class of trains will never be compatible. The 357 and 387s cannot be used for passenger service. As discussed at length before the 387 fleet has different hardware that allows attachment to older Electrostar's (357/375/376/377/378/379) as emergency in service (to next suitable location then terminate) or ECS only. You cannot put the two together and run them in service.

The only fix is to strip down every 357 and re-wire them to make them compatible. It's a hardware issue as the parts used in the older Electrostar's are now so old it's no longer made. The five car 377 had a cheat made but it's not cost effective.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The only fix is to strip down every 357 and re-wire them to make them compatible. It's a hardware issue as the parts used in the older Electrostar's are now so old it's no longer made. The five car 377 had a cheat made but it's not cost effective.

I wonder if that's something that they'll consider whenever the 357s are due for their major strip down and overhaul at the mid point in their service life (which can't be too many years away)

 

[D365]

I wonder if that's something that they'll consider whenever the 357s are due for their major strip down and overhaul at the mid point in their service life (which can't be too many years away)

Here we go again.

The six 387s are a separate fleet and will be utilised very differently on a short-term basis so I don't see what your obsession is. Any further discussion should likely continue on a separate thread.

 

[MCR247]

It's not so bad for c2c as all the units are made by the same manufacturer so would be easier if they wanted to to make the two classes compatible in service.

Hate to burst your bubble but you realise that 357s and 387s can't even physically couple? 357s have tightlock, 387s dellner...

 

[47802]

I wonder if that's something that they'll consider whenever the 357s are due for their major strip down and overhaul at the mid point in their service life (which can't be too many years away)

Why the 387's are only temporary, C2C will be procuring some new trains which may not be from Bombardier, could be Hitachi, Siemens or others, and even if they do get Bombardier they will likely be Aventra's and not Electrostars.

 

[380101]

They are not being cleared to work the same routes as 380s and will not be based at the same depots.

385s will not be cleared for the Ayrshire or Inverclyde lines. 380s meanwhile are unlikely to work Carstairs, Lanark or North Berwick services once the 385s arrive.

Clearance for ayshire and Inverclyde routes will be fairly easy given that the 385 is almost a carbon copy of the 380.

They are being cleared for routes the 380 works - Cathcart Circle being one.

 

[Carntyne]

They'll be cleared on Inverclyde too. Won't run though.

 

[SC318250]

They'll be cleared on Inverclyde too. Won't run though.

Suspect that is where the initial test runs under possession will be carried out

I take it when timetable changes next year, Ayr to Edinburgh/North Berwick will cease?

 

[Mordac]

Clearance for ayshire and Inverclyde routes will be fairly easy given that the 385 is almost a carbon copy of the 380.

They are being cleared for routes the 380 works - Cathcart Circle being one.

Cathcart Circle is a 314 route, not a 380.

 

[Clansman]

Cathcart Circle is a 314 route, not a 380.

380s work the Cathcart Circle on peak time services, but not as often as when they were first introduced.

 

[380101]

Cathcart Circle is a 314 route, not a 380.

380 goes on the Circle nearly every morning during peak times.

 

[AndrewR232]

380 goes on the Circle nearly every morning during peak times.

That is correct - this and this are diagrammed 380 runs.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I wouldn't completely put it past ScotRail to order extra 385s to replace all their 380s, after-all who would have expected AGA to replace all of their 360s

 

[Altnabreac]

I wouldn't completely put it past ScotRail to order extra 385s to replace all their 380s, after-all who would have expected AGA to replace all of their 360s

Why would they? There will be a need for new electric stock as electrification continues to EK, Barrhead, Maryhill etc, towards the end of the Franchise 318s and 320s will be getting close to life expiry.

There are plenty of reasons for ordering extra 385s but replacing 380s is absolutely not one of them.

 

[Mordac]

380s work the Cathcart Circle on peak time services, but not as often as when they were first introduced.

My bad!

 

[D365]

I wouldn't completely put it past ScotRail to order extra 385s to replace all their 380s, after-all who would have expected AGA to replace all of their 360s

Err, in that case it makes sense as the rest of the fleet is being replaced anyway.

And as I said before, Transport Scotland has a contract that demands use of the Class 380 fleet for 27.5 years.

 

[Carntyne]

I wouldn't completely put it past ScotRail to order extra 385s to replace all their 380s, after-all who would have expected AGA to replace all of their 360s

They won't. As others have said, TS have a contract for them to run in Scotland for years to come.