Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[SPADTrap]

Pure hearsay.

I did wonder!

 

[Scotrail84]

I did wonder!

You an employee that's heard that or an enthusiast?

 

[jingsmonty]

Because someone got hurt badly exiting the cab to perform station duties due to the lack of a step! I don't sign 170s nor drive with a guard but fairly certain that's what I heard!

That's what I heard as well, also my understanding is that Abellio have not confirmed whether the AT200's will be D.O.O. or not, it's something that will be 'out to consultation'. Personally, I would say 'keep the guard and let the Driver drive the train'...

 

[380gk]

That's what I heard as well, also my understanding is that Abellio have not confirmed whether the AT200's will be D.O.O. or not, it's something that will be 'out to consultation'. Personally, I would say 'keep the guard and let the Driver drive the train'...

They confirmed that they would be over the last few weeks at staff roadshows.

 

[170401]

They confirmed that they would be over the last few weeks at staff roadshows.

All they have confirmed is 'driver controlled operation' (meaning drivers operating doors) as stipulated in the franchise agreement. It doesn't necessarily follow that guards will be dispensed with entirely, indeed the general consensus for some time has been that guards will be retained but will be more customer focused on these units. Abellio has committed to 2 members of staff on every train and no compulsory redundancies for the duration of the franchise.

 

[380gk]

They have not.
They have also not commited to no compulsory redeployments/internal restructure.
I agree that a train manager type grade may be created down the line for the HSTs. TMs would be fostered seperately from guards and would also be responsible for hosts on the trains, with their role being more customer focused in some shape or form.

 

[WatcherZero]

First image of the trains.

Front end a bit different to the stock bodyshell (and not just because of the door), looks like the rest of the coach is the same though. Gangway doors identical to the 380, possibly same supplier?

 

[Argosy]

Yes that looks reasonably attractive, better than the 380's. With the headlight like that. might they be known as 'daleks?'

 

[po8crg]

That looks a lot like a 380. Like, at first glance, I thought it was a 380.

Stupid question, but are the end-doors able to connect between the two?

 

[SkinnyDave]

I prefer the original design, looks very futuristic but understand the need for gangway doors for flexibility

 

[theironroad]

Another train design pic where the seats and windows are not aligned.....

 

[clc]

Transport Scotland say the new trains will also operate on Glasgow South Suburban routes though they don't say which ones (Ayrshire?):

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/scotland-track-new-trains

 

[Altnabreac]

Transport Scotland say the new trains will also operate on Glasgow South Suburban routes though they don't say which ones (Ayrshire?):

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/scotland-track-new-trains

According to the Franchise Document the only lines in the West to be cleared for the AT200s are Lanark, Motherwell, Hamilton Circle, Cumbernauld & Whifflet.

They will be cleared through Central and Queen St Low Levels but only as far as Hyndland.

So I suspect the South Glasgow services will therefore be Lanark - Central High Level, Glasgow - Edinburgh via Carstairs and any Lanarkshire - Finnieston Turnback services that may be introduced.

 

[clc]

According to the Franchise Document the only lines in the West to be cleared for the AT200s are Lanark, Motherwell, Hamilton Circle, Cumbernauld & Whifflet.

They will be cleared through Central and Queen St Low Levels but only as far as Hyndland.

So I suspect the South Glasgow services will therefore be Lanark - Central High Level, Glasgow - Edinburgh via Carstairs and any Lanarkshire - Finnieston Turnback services that may be introduced.

Thanks. I'm surprised Ayrshire isn't cleared as it's usually top of the pecking order when it comes to getting new trains.

Is the new turnback at Finnieston confirmed or do you mean the existing siding?

 

[Altnabreac]

Thanks. I'm surprised Ayrshire isn't cleared as it's usually top of the pecking order when it comes to getting new trains.

Is the new turnback at Finnieston confirmed or do you mean the existing siding?

Ayrshire not currently on list of routes to be cleared but that doesn't mean it can't be done later.

Not seen final confirmation for Finnieston yet but it will be needed if any more trains are required to run into Central. Suspect it will happen fairly soon.

 

[clc]

Ayrshire not currently on list of routes to be cleared but that doesn't mean it can't be done later.

Not seen final confirmation for Finnieston yet but it will be needed if any more trains are required to run into Central. Suspect it will happen fairly soon.

I'm trying (as a layman) to interpret the clearance info in the franchise agreement. I take it the priority 1 routes are cleared for the new rolling stock and the priority 2 routes are not cleared but might be in future? If that's correct they wouldn't be able to run to Lanark from the outset as 'Lanark to Lanark Junction' is a priority 2 route.

 

[380101]

That looks a lot like a 380. Like, at first glance, I thought it was a 380.

Stupid question, but are the end-doors able to connect between the two?

Abellio did say at one of the staff roadshow the AT200s are to be fully compatible with the 380 so they can be used in service if needed.

 

[clc]

Not seen final confirmation for Finnieston yet but it will be needed if any more trains are required to run into Central. Suspect it will happen fairly soon.

Any idea how many more trains they'll be able to run through Central LL when the turnback is built?

 

[NicholasNCE]

Abellio did say at one of the staff roadshow the AT200s are to be fully compatible with the 380 so they can be used in service if needed.

Does this mean Siemens has agreed to license their "control" technology to Hitachi so that the AT200s can "speak" to the 380s?
A bit like Alstom did with Bombardier so that Voyagers and Pendos can work together.

 

[380101]

Does this mean Siemens has agreed to license their "control" technology to Hitachi so that the AT200s can "speak" to the 380s?
A bit like Alstom did with Bombardier so that Voyagers and Pendos can work together.

No idea about that, but given that the 380 is "fly by wire" technology I imagine its just a matter of writing suitable software to make it work. It will make sense operationally having them being compatible so they can assist each other in the event of failures.

 

[WatcherZero]

I thought while UK rolling stock dont't have to share their software they did legally have to make available the communication protocols for interoperability and open standards on competition grounds. Though Alstom Bombardier went further and shared the Train management software itself.

Other thing from the website is Hitachi now referring to the 395 as Javelin, previously they had never called it that just the Olympic Delivery Agency calling the service Javelin, so I guess the Javelin name is now 'official' after years of only being semi official.

 

[NicholasNCE]

I thought while UK rolling stock dont't have to share their software they did legally have to make available the communication protocols for interoperability and open standards on competition grounds. Though Alstom Bombardier went further and shared the Train management software itself.

I didn't realise this was a legal requirement.
Are there any current examples of units from different manufacturers capable of MU working, excluding Pendos/Voyagers and ex-BR stock?

 

[WatcherZero]

No, mostly BR vintage where multiple manufacturers produced interoperable stock. The 170's can couple to the 15x I think but need modifications to brake wiring to be compatible with 16x.

 

[Scotrail84]

No, mostly BR vintage where multiple manufacturers produced interoperable stock. The 170's can couple to the 15x I think but need modifications to brake wiring to be compatible with 16x.

They can't couple to 14x

 

[WatcherZero]

That's a limitation of the 14x control hardware.

 

[Scotrail84]

I'm hearing possibly 5 loco hauled Fife services per weekday. The usual morning and evening peak train and one during the day possibly around midday. Top and tailed or with a dvt or a dbso at the rear. DRS trying to source these. Nothing confirmed but this would fill the void of the 4 170s that's are leaving on the 1st of April.

 

[hibtastic]

I'm hearing possibly 5 loco hauled Fife services per weekday. The usual morning and evening peak train and one during the day possibly around midday. Top and tailed or with a dvt or a dbso at the rear. DRS trying to source these. Nothing confirmed but this would fill the void of the 4 170s that's are leaving on the 1st of April.

This would be great news if it comes off. See not always moaning

 

[Scotrail84]

This would be great news if it comes off. See not always moaning

Could be doing with one to take the hibs fans back from Cowdenbeath tomorrow [emoji1]

 

[hibtastic]

Could be doing with one to take the hibs fans back from Cowdenbeath tomorrow [emoji1]

Indeed, and I will be there.

 

[Scotrail84]

Indeed, and I will be there.

As will I.