ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[320320]

I am a TE for Scotrail, I read this email yesterday and assumed that the downtime meant my rest days. That's how I've interpreted it. Me being spare isn't downtime. It's working.

I see the email says,

“there is an additional pay increase built into your basic salary every year to take into account rest day working, regardless if a rest day is worked or not, meaning all staff benefit, not just those who work a rest day.”

Does this mean that the RMT has to sanction a rest day working agreement if this pay deal is agreed?

 

[Robertj21a]

I see the email says,

“there is an additional pay increase built into your basic salary every year to take into account rest day working, regardless if a rest day is worked or not, meaning all staff benefit, not just those who work a rest day.”

Does this mean that the RMT has to sanction a rest day working agreement if this pay deal is agreed?

I'm getting lost. If the basic pay now includes RDW, why does the RMT need to agree anything?

 

[alangla]

So what do you do when someone booking on at 5am has slept in or their cars broken down or later in the day when they have an emergency or go sick at the last minute? Who covers those services at immediate notice?
By the time you’ve phoned people at home and tried to get them to drop everything to come to work it’s too late, services have been cancelled and the cost of those cancellations and and associated delays of other services are far greater than the cost of having spare staff on duty.

Surely in that situation you'd lose maybe one round trip, but not the whole shift. Not viable on long out & back routes where the crew do one return trip to Oban or Dundee or something, but in SPT-land or Fife?
Also, there's been a spate recently of things appearing on Journeycheck as "cancelled due to a train driver taken ill" but a last update time of 12 hrs + earlier - surely that's prime for this sort of cover, if you could get it to work.

Coming back completely on topic & some good news - The Scotsman is reporting that the TSSA have settled with ScotRail and are no longer in dispute

COP26 Scotrail strikes still set to continue, despite one union's decision to call off industrial action

A union has ended its dispute with ScotRail and will no longer take part in industrial action after accepting a pay deal.

www.scotsman.com

TSSA said it has now accepted an offer that amounts to a 2.5% pay increase backdated to April 1, 2021, and a 2.2% increase effective from April 1, 2022.


There will also be a one-off £300 payment for staff working during Cop26.

Its members will cease industrial action from 23.59pm on Sunday.

TSSA general secretary Manuel Cortes said: "The overwhelming majority of our members voted to accept the offer and we have written to the company to accept it.

"We are aware that the RMT are continuing with their industrial action, as is their legal right.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Surely in that situation you'd lose maybe one round trip, but not the whole shift. Not viable on long out & back routes where the crew do one return trip to Oban or Dundee or something, but in SPT-land or Fife?
Also, there's been a spate recently of things appearing on Journeycheck as "cancelled due to a train driver taken ill" but a last update time of 12 hrs + earlier - surely that's prime for this sort of cover, if you could get it to work.

Coming back completely on topic & some good news - The Scotsman is reporting that the TSSA have settled with ScotRail and are no longer in dispute

COP26 Scotrail strikes still set to continue, despite one union's decision to call off industrial action

A union has ended its dispute with ScotRail and will no longer take part in industrial action after accepting a pay deal.

www.scotsman.com

Tons of train crew off just now, sick isolating etc. All spares are being utilised. I've not sat spare for ages. Primarily picking up work from other depots.

 

[320320]

Surely in that situation you'd lose maybe one round trip, but not the whole shift. Not viable on long out & back routes where the crew do one return trip to Oban or Dundee or something, but in SPT-land or Fife?
Also, there's been a spate recently of things appearing on Journeycheck as "cancelled due to a train driver taken ill" but a last update time of 12 hrs + earlier - surely that's prime for this sort of cover, if you could get it to work.

People often get the phone call the night before asking them to cover an early the next morning but it’s difficult to convince somebody to set the alarm for 3.30am when they’ve already made plans for that day.

The main point is that you need spares or the service is susceptible to falling apart due to staff being late or going sick at the last minute and it is common to lose the whole shift because it’s extremely difficult to get people on a rest day to drop everything and come to work at the last minute even when they’re paid well for it.

I don’t think that’s going to work at all when you‘re asking people to come in and help out but refusing to pay them any sort of enhancement for it.

 

[scotraildriver]

It's not just about covering sickness. A train might arrive with a fault and require to go to the depot, you need someone to do that NOW, not in 2 hours time after you call someone. You need people in place to step up in the event of distruption if someone has ended up stranded where they shouldn't be. Something like a fatality requires an instant relief for the crew. You also need spares to cover when people are off the roster for training or medical reasons. The list is endless but to operate with no spare staff on hand would cause serious issues.

 

[alangla]

I don’t think that’s going to work at all when you‘re asking people to come in and help out but refusing to pay them any sort of enhancement for it.

Definitely. It's either got to be a contractual obligation (as per a lot of aircrew) or there's got to be something really attractive offered to make people a) make themselves available b) take short-notice jobs.
Given what's been said about all spares being used just now, that would almost inevitably cause a spiral where fewer people would make themselves available because they're getting called out time & time again.

 

[haggishunter]

…..
Make no mistake, this has nothing to do with Abellio, the blame lies firmly with the SNP executive.

Perhaps if they paid people for their efforts throughout the pandemic instead of trying to indoctrinate people into vanity issues like speaking Gaelic, we'd not be the laughing stock in a fortnight's time.

Pretty clear what the agenda is here from that post.

 

[greyman42]

Well I'm not, perhaps you could enlighten me?

 

[Speed43125]

Well I'm not, perhaps you could enlighten me?

I suppose the idea is that it is an anti SNP agenda isn't it?

I would suggest the first sentence quotes is in isolation essentially truthful though even if the second rather completely spoils that effect...

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Latest offer rejected...

 

[haggishunter]

Well I'm not, perhaps you could enlighten me?

I have a very big problem with the quoted concept that Highland culture and the language of the Gaels is a vanity project that’s cost ScotRail guards their rest day bonus.

It’s offensive tabloid-esq nonsense,typical of a certain type of ultra unionist. Some RMT members are complaining about attitudes to rail staff on here, but ASLEF and the TSSA have agreed deals with Abellio ScotRail, beginning to look like the RMT is the problem.

Arguably conductors have been let down by the pointless petty militancy of their union. If the 12 day strike goes ahead you’ve signed the death warrant for guards on ScotRail trains.

 

[PaulMc7]

Latest offer rejected...

Unfortunately to the surprise of nobody at this point

 

[InOban]

I wonder if ASLEF will let all the DOO trains run without another person.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

A Rdw enhancement was finally put on the table and it was rejected. I'm not sure what the union are holding out for here tbh.

 

[Christmas]

A Rdw enhancement was finally put on the table and it was rejected. I'm not sure what the union are holding out for here tbh.

Perhaps a removal of the strings attached to the pay offer? No other grades were expected to give something up in return for their rises.

I wonder if ASLEF will let all the DOO trains run without another person.

As long as the trains are rostered with the name of a real person who is standing in for the ticket examiner then the train will operate.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Are we likely to get a no strings offer at this stage?

 

[PaulMc7]

Are we likely to get a no strings offer at this stage?

Given how long this has gone on for and given the uncertainty around all public transport and passenger levels going forward I highly doubt it.

 

[320320]

Are we likely to get a no strings offer at this stage?

You’d think at the very least, they‘ll want the briefings from you. What was the enhancement that was offered?

 

[LoogaBarooga]

A 12-month RDW enhancement in the form of a book on allowance and equivalent to a 2 hours additional payment on top of each rest day worked by General Grade staff, before the anniversary date of the 12 month deal the trade unions will request a review.

 

[Donhamer]

It’s a terrible ‘offer’. The conditions attached are unbelievable and were never going to be acceptable to staff particularly Guards.

It’s been said it’s like Scotrail are trying to completely change the role of the Guard and are doing it on the cheap. I don’t disagree.

 

[PaulMc7]

It’s a terrible ‘offer’. The conditions attached are unbelievable and were never going to be acceptable to staff particularly Guards.

It’s been said it’s like Scotrail are trying to completely change the role of the Guard and are doing it on the cheap. I don’t disagree.

Is cheap a word we can use to describe anything to do with Scotrail staff given that compared to other industries they're very well paid? I wouldn't say so personally. Part of the issue is just how much the government put into the railway to keep it going through Covid too. They'll want it kept as cheap as possible going beyond March and that's realistic IMO. I don't know what the RMT want but the chances of it being realistic in the current climate is very minimal IMO. Any payrise in the current situation is very lucky.

 

[Christmas]

I'll just point out that I'm not a ScotRail ticket examiner, nor a guard, nor a member of the RMT so it's not my fight at all but I can see why it's a bad offer with bad feeling behind it.

Is cheap a word we can use to describe anything to do with Scotrail staff given that compared to other industries they're very well paid? I wouldn't say so personally. Part of the issue is just how much the government put into the railway to keep it going through Covid too. They'll want it kept as cheap as possible going beyond March and that's realistic IMO. I don't know what the RMT want but the chances of it being realistic in the current climate is very minimal IMO. Any payrise in the current situation is very lucky.

The members of the other three unions have been given pay rises with no strings so why should RMT members be singled out?

 

[320320]

A 12-month RDW enhancement in the form of a book on allowance and equivalent to a 2 hours additional payment on top of each rest day worked by General Grade staff, before the anniversary date of the 12 month deal the trade unions will request a review.

Its obviously dependent on the level on concession being sought by Scotrail but you’d think the RMT will need to give something in return.

 

[PaulMc7]

I'll just point out that I'm not a ScotRail ticket examiner, nor a guard, nor a member of the RMT so it's not my fight at all but I can see why it's a bad offer with bad feeling behind it.


The members of the other three unions have been given pay rises with no strings so why should RMT members be singled out?

I'm not saying they should be but surely someone in the union had the foresight to know dragging your heels against a company on their way out is a very bad idea.

Personally if it was me in the union decision maker position I'd have taken the slightest of increases now and pushed for more post pandemic when we know a lot more about what state the railway is in and what passenger numbers are.

I'm not a big fan of this government either but with Covid being how it is they're right to want to save money too. All it takes is Covid to get worse again and then you need to start bailing out industries again. There's a no win position right now. A bit of communication shutting this entire thing down months ago would have gone a long way from them but it wasn't hard to predict how this would go.

 

[320320]

It’s a terrible ‘offer’. The conditions attached are unbelievable and were never going to be acceptable to staff particularly Guards.

It’s been said it’s like Scotrail are trying to completely change the role of the Guard and are doing it on the cheap. I don’t disagree.

What were the condition? Have they asked for more in addition to the removal of briefings and assisting at barriers when spare?

 

[InOban]

It’s a terrible ‘offer’. The conditions attached are unbelievable and were never going to be acceptable to staff particularly Guards.

It’s been said it’s like Scotrail are trying to completely change the role of the Guard and are doing it on the cheap. I don’t disagree.

Are you disagreeing with changing the role of the 'guard' (or whatever you wish to call them ) into a 21st century job , or just that they're trying to do so on the cheap?

 

[Christmas]

Are you disagreeing with changing the role of the 'guard' (or whatever you wish to call them ) into a 21st century job , or just that they're trying to do so on the cheap?

Why are you questioning the use of the word guard? The RRSB Rule Book, agreed with Network Rail and the TOCs calls the grade a guard so no need for the condescension.

 

[kkong]

So next time you’re at work, if your boss asks you to go and clean the toilets because the cleaners are short staffed “and need a hand”, you’ll be fine with that will you? Laughable.

Helping with some queue busting at the gateline is hardly the same as being asked to the clean the toilets.

Anyway, it's good to know that you equate the work of gateline workers to toilet cleaners.

 

[seagull]

In what industry other the railway would someone sit around "spare" doing nothing instead of offering to help out their colleagues who might need a hand?

Helping with some queue busting at the gateline is hardly the same as being asked to the clean the toilets.

Anyway, it's good to know that you equate the work of gateline workers to toilet cleaners.

Is your aim on this thread to provoke?
On your first point you were proved completely wrong by multiple posters, and on your second: as well as a false accusation, have you not encountered a thing called "principle"?

Those on the gateline may well be somewhat concerned if their own jobs might be put at risk by others being asked to help, for example.