Scotrail RMT strike action and possible temporary service cuts to a third of services

[northwichcat]

New recruits and retirement. Absolutely not. Staff turnover is a basic business need. There should, and most likely will, be a manpower plan in place that deals with staff turnover; whether its natural wastage or otherwise.

Employees are free to resign or retire whenever they want. Would you prefer the notice period to be the same length of time it takes to recruit or train a new member of staff? If you want a 3 month notice period but it takes 12 months to train new staff, then there may be occasions where staff can't be replaced at the rate they leave. That's even if the employer always attempts to recruit new staff at the earliest opportunity and to recruit trained staff where available.

 

[ComUtoR]

Employees are free to resign or retire whenever they want. Would you prefer the notice period to be the same length of time it takes to recruit or train a new member of staff? If you want a 3 month notice period but it takes 12 months to train new staff, then there may be occasions where staff can't be replaced at the rate they leave. That's even if the employer always attempts to recruit new staff at the earliest opportunity and to recruit trained staff where available.

It's bad planning. Retirement can be predicted, so can general staff turnover. Manpower plans exist to plan and predict what staffing levels are required in the future. Again, its worth reiterating. Unplanned and unpredictable is OK. Reliance is not.

Having zero flexibility in your workforce isnt sensible and leads us to where we are today. Basing anything on the good will of your staff means you absolutely need that good will.

 

[Deltic1961]

Scotrail don't seem to be responding to the angry replies to their Twitter feed either.

They never do. Quite hapy to send out tweets but never reply to the responses. Scotrail's customer service is utterly shocking.

 

[Scotrail12]

They never do. Quite hapy to send out tweets but never reply to the responses. Scotrail's customer service is utterly shocking.

They actually seem to view customers as an inconvenience, it comes through a lot of the time. Both in person and social media. Case in point is how they were acting throughout COVID on Twitter, you'd think they actively wanted zero customers on their trains.

 

[Dryce]

The last Paisley Canal train is 1912. What can you say about that?

Definitely a modern functioning society.

Harks back to the days of the Bridge of Weir and Kilmacolm services - last service from Glasgow was something like 1813.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Scot Rail press release would have you think they've been bowled a curved ball but the reality is the underlying problems were already there yet they construct a timetable that was undeliverable. What is also disgraceful is as usual its UFN. Scot Rail should be made to report WEEKLY to the Scottish people what they are doing about this rather than just ignoring their customers. Also ScotRail management need to be called to account by the Scottish Parliament urgently to explain themselves.

 

[Pretendolino]

It's bad planning. Retirement can be predicted, so can general staff turnover. Manpower plans exist to plan and predict what staffing levels are required in the future. Again, its worth reiterating. Unplanned and unpredictable is OK. Reliance is not.

Having zero flexibility in your workforce isnt sensible and leads us to where we are today. Basing anything on the good will of your staff means you absolutely need that good will.

Firstly, retirement isn't as easy to predict as you'd imagine. There is no longer a 'legal retirement age' and so staff are free to carry on working as they wish. Somebody could work to 62 or to 82 and beyond. It's up to them! What you can do is try and have great working relationships so that drivers give management timely notice of when they're planning to retire. Even then, that's no guarantee, as life isn't as simple as that.

Secondly, while general staff turnover can be predicted, manpower (or I should say resource) plans are not constructed on a 'general' basis. They are done on a depot-by-depot basis. If I'm expecting to lose 5 staff over the year, I can't assume that's evenly distributed across the depots. Given the geographic coverage of some TOCs, that is problematic, as if you act prematurely you could recruit where it's not needed and not easily move the staff to a different depot.

Thirdly, the timetable planning process doesn't always align to resource planning. If the service provision changes more than expected, the establishment may too. This leaves you playing catch up either trying to fill establishment or being well over establishment. A recent example was the suspension of Gatwick Express services, initially to support the station development and latterly for Covid-19. That required some serious resource planning to shift drivers over to productive work.

Ultimately, the recruitment and training process is much longer than the notice period for staff. Until this is addressed in contracts, TOCs will forever be chasing their tails.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Firstly, retirement isn't as easy to predict as you'd imagine. There is no longer a 'legal retirement age' and so staff are free to carry on working as they wish. Somebody could work to 62 or to 82 and beyond. It's up to them! What you can do is try and have great working relationships so that drivers give management timely notice of when they're planning to retire. Even then, that's no guarantee, as life isn't as simple as that.

Secondly, while general staff turnover can be predicted, manpower (or I should say resource) plans are not constructed on a 'general' basis. They are done on a depot-by-depot basis. If I'm expecting to lose 5 staff over the year, I can't assume that's evenly distributed across the depots. Given the geographic coverage of some TOCs, that is problematic, as if you act prematurely you could recruit where it's not needed and not easily move the staff to a different depot.

Thirdly, the timetable planning process doesn't always align to resource planning. If the service provision changes more than expected, the establishment may too. This leaves you playing catch up either trying to fill establishment or being well over establishment. A recent example was the suspension of Gatwick Express services, initially to support the station development and latterly for Covid-19. That required some serious resource planning to shift drivers over to productive work.

Ultimately, the recruitment and training process is much longer than the notice period for staff. Until this is addressed in contracts, TOCs will forever be chasing their tails.

Very insightful and you are right that the industry has to collectively (management and unions) confront the industries issues and work together to find solutions.

 

[ComUtoR]

TOCs will forever be chasing their tails.

To some degree yes. But they will always ameliorate turnover with recruitment. The process is ongoing and yes, I agree with the rest of your post too (other than notice periods).

 

[Voyager lad]

These cuts are an absolute disaster to me - I heavily rely on the 2245 and 2345 Edinburgh - Glasgow services (to Croy/Lenzie) and I now have no way to get home. I can use the 900 to Glasgow but even then it’ll just be a taxi back home from there - which when working 4-5 days a week is going to quickly become unaffordable. Really frustrating that they couldn’t even maintain an hourly evening service, especially as they have been running the evening service absolutely fine the last few weeks

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

These cuts are an absolute disaster to me - I heavily rely on the 2245 and 2345 Edinburgh - Glasgow services (to Croy/Lenzie) and I now have no way to get home. I can use the 900 to Glasgow but even then it’ll just be a taxi back home from there - which when working 4-5 days a week is going to quickly become unaffordable. Really frustrating that they couldn’t even maintain an hourly evening service, especially as they have been running the evening service absolutely fine the last few weeks

Complain to your MSP its easy just send them an email. The more people that do it the more pressure will be bought up at Holyrood and Jenny Gilruth will have to make a statement about what she's doing about it.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It's bad planning. Retirement can be predicted, so can general staff turnover. Manpower plans exist to plan and predict what staffing levels are required in the future. Again, its worth reiterating. Unplanned and unpredictable is OK. Reliance is not.

+1 -
OT alert in certain industries a bit of staff turnover is welcome. It brings fresh ways at looking at things, fresh ideas etc. Railways not so much but yes can in general be predicted.

Having zero flexibility in your workforce isnt sensible and leads us to where we are today. Basing anything on the good will of your staff means you absolutely need that good will.

I agree.

 

[Scotrail314209]

They actually seem to view customers as an inconvenience, it comes through a lot of the time. Both in person and social media. Case in point is how they were acting throughout COVID on Twitter, you'd think they actively wanted zero customers on their trains.

Absolute agree, not to mention how cheeky they get when you question their reasoning for a short form being 'a shortage of train crew' when it only uses one guard and one driver.

 

[Peter0124]

The timetable seems to have been put in RTT now, argyle line services are still showing somehow so hopefully this is right and Scotrails timetable plan was a mistake.

 

[Horizon22]

1tpd for the Far North local stations! Why on earth would you not stop both?

This looks like Northern style diagram lopping rather than actually designing a realistic but useful timetable.

Two days ago they posted a Tweet expressing that they can't be bothered* getting buses in...I guess that was directed at this.

* Well, it didn't say that, but it made excuses. I'm sure if they opened their wallet sufficiently they could get at least some buses.

To an extent - finding rail replacement (of the larger vehicle variety) has genuinely been incredibly difficult since the pandemic as drivers have left the industry and many of the usual suspects don't have the spare resource to assist with RRVs. I think the key thing is it can be provided, but not reliably, consistently and indeed guaranteed (which they somewhat said).

 

[Bletchleyite]

To an extent - finding rail replacement (of the larger vehicle variety) has genuinely been incredibly difficult since the pandemic as drivers have left the industry and many of the usual suspects don't have the spare resource to assist with RRVs. I think the key thing is it can be provided, but not reliably, consistently and indeed guaranteed (which they somewhat said).

If they know they're going to need it for a long period, they will get it if they pay a decent rate. Getting it on short notice is what is more difficult. If you offer a well-paid 6 month contract to a typical family coach firm they'll likely happily acquire a vehicle and recruit a member of staff for it. They aren't as easy to get as they were, but if you pay a very good rate you'll easily poach from a bus company.

So if they wanted to add a coach round trip to the Far North/West Highland for the duration of this (attempt at a) timetable I reckon they would quite easily get that at the right money.

 

[Horizon22]

If they know they're going to need it for a long period, they will get it if they pay a decent rate. Getting it on short notice is what is more difficult. If you offer a well-paid 6 month contract to a typical family coach firm they'll likely happily acquire a vehicle and recruit a member of staff for it. They aren't as easy to get as they were, but if you pay a very good rate you'll easily poach from a bus company.

So if they wanted to add a coach round trip to the Far North/West Highland for the duration of this (attempt at a) timetable I reckon they would quite easily get that at the right money.

Yes its certainly much easy to do proper contracts and all, and short-notice is indeed hard. It certainly isn't as easy as it once was though as you say and I don't think it can be *guaranteed*, which was the key ScotRail message.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes its certainly much easy to do proper contracts and all, and short-notice is indeed hard. It certainly isn't as easy as it once was though as you say and I don't think it can be *guaranteed*, which was the key ScotRail message.

Of course with regard to this timetable, they could contract it then put it in the timetable once a contract was successfully let. I reckon they'd get the 4 or so coaches needed to put some more suitable extra services on to Fort William and Wick.

 

[Horizon22]

Worse to over-promise of course! Especially when the timetable is already cut to the bone.

 

[InOban]

Standby for complete chaos on the roads the like of which we have not seen before up here. Anybody who who still tries to believe that it's worse in England really needs to wake up and smell the coffee, or more likely the diesel

Outside parts of Glasgow, rail plays a minor role in transporting the public. I would be surprised if there is any noticeable effect on road congestion.

 

[Huntergreed]

Outside parts of Glasgow, rail plays a minor role in transporting the public. I would be surprised if there is any noticeable effect on road congestion.

Many of the central belt trains are packed, the trains down my way (GSW/WCML) can also be very heavily loaded sometimes. I would say if even 30% of passengers switched to cars there would be a very noticeable increase in road traffic.

 

[Falcon1200]

I will certainly be contacting my MSP ! I would also question why the cuts are so savage (according to the BBC News, 700 trains a day); As I mentioned earlier the early morning and evening Neilston services will go, yet yesterday only one train on that route was cancelled throughout the entire day. Could it perhaps be the case that Scotrail have said 'if some of you won't work overtime, none of you will', so the new TT does not depend on any overtime at all ?

 

[FtoE]

Sorry if it’s been covered but is there any indication of how ‘temporary’ this timetable will be?
Two trains / day to Ft Wm & Mallaig? Absurd.
Highland Line services not too badly affected, though last trains have been cancelled north & southbound.

 

[AJW12]

Yeah. Whilst I feel most for those people who now can’t get to work at the times they want to (or now have to put up with a two hour gap in the evening), this is going to be quite devastating for lots of areas around the highlands during the summer.

It’s a very popular tourist destination and the service is already infrequent that people need to plan carefully. When there’s now, for example, no evening service from Ft William southbound - those four carriages of people are likely just not going to travel at all now leaving the local businesses around those stations with a massive cut in custom, which could be enough to send them over the edge in an already difficult economic situation. Scotland certainly seems to be doing its best to stop its economy from recovering….

 

[Deltic1961]

It will also mean if something happens and there's an interruption to services it will take far longer to recover.

I see a few people on Twitter asking for season ticket refunds as their regular train no longer operates. Scotrail just don't seem to care about revenue at all.

 

[mcmad]

It will also mean if something happens and there's an interruption to services it will take far longer to recover.

I see a few people on Twitter asking for season ticket refunds as their regular train no longer operates. Scotrail just don't seem to care about revenue at all.

Scotrail haven't cared about revenue since it was announced Abellio weren't getting the contract extension.

 

[Tayway]

Over 150 cancellations today alone – including four in a row from Central to Ayr, and seemingly random diagrams almost everywhere else. A number of low level trains seem to be turning short at Dalmuir or Hyndland as well.

 

[muz379]

How are RRB busses for which people will have to pay rail fares going to compete with existing busses on some routes though ? is there a calculation being made that there simply wont be enough passengers to in the view of scotrail management justify the cost ?

My guess is that the underlying reality is that if this overtime situation was corrected the unions would be demanding concessions or some sort of additional compensation for the loss of regular overtime. So while the overtime situation exists they might profess it is a problem and they don't really like it - try and remove it and a slightly different truth would probably emerge. Meanwhile the status quo is the simplest solution to not addressing the problem.

I am not sure that any of the rail unions would demand concessions . I know during my career there have been long periods when RDW has dried up both for drivers and guards without any complaint from the union . During covid once emergency timetables were implemented there was very little if any RDW for 12/18 months . Even now with still running a reduced timetable the only real day I have seen people marked up RDW is saturday which many people do not volunteer for .

Even if all RDW halted tomorrow because TOC's sorted out their recruitment policy , and a member of ASLEF or RMT managed to raise a motion to demand a concession over this . I very much doubt that this would go anywhere because working rest days is not something all staff do or have any interest in .

 

[Cletus]

Am I reading the temporary timetable correctly that there's no train from Fort William back to Glasgow after the 11.40am?

How temporary is temporary? I due to be travelling on the 21st June and was planning to be on the 5.16pm?

 

[scosutsut]

I think the sad thing about this is the situation has not happened overnight and it won't be fixed overnight either.
With this dispute absolutely everyone loses - the staff, the passengers, the government, the economy, the environment. Everyone.

Like many I've gone from using Scotrail 3-5 days a week to commute to nothing, and slowly now use them occasionally as I go back to the office.

For the duration of this though I won't bother - the stress and grief of cancellations over the last few weeks has erroded all the benefits of the train, so now I will use the bus (which takes longer and is less comfortable) or drive (which costs more and comes with its own stresses)

Surely the pragmatic approach would be for both side to sit down and say, right we are in this pickle. How do we collectively sort it and agree the long term strategy and who is doing what whilst that is being delivered otherwise the can just gets kicked down the round.

They get a bigger pay rise, they go back to work in conditions they aren't particularly happy about and the whole process repeats itself a year later if not sooner.

I have every sympathy with people wanting to be paid what they are worth, especially with the spiraling cost of living that affects everyone that works for a living - but everyone, no matter their industry or employer has to be mindful of the realities of the situation and be pragmatic. To keep the side of public opinion I think the union could at least seem less combative and more open to dialogue, it seems to be the old war cry of "money money money oh and safety" on the face of it, whereas the truth is it's far more complex than that.

I fully appreciate I am neither in the industry nor aware of what the dialogue in the background looks like, and I hope a lot of what I'm suggesting is ongoing, for everyone's benefit.