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Scratch sets

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Taunton

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I believe that for a time in the late 1970s and early '80s you used to get Class 20-hauled trains on the Hull-Scarborough line formed of scratch sets consisting of a mixture of conventional loco-hauled Mark 1s and Class 123/124 Trans-Pennine DMU cars.

Presumably the train heating and interior lighting wouldn't work in that case, although in the summer that wouldn't be too much of a problem during daylight hours provided that there were no tunnels on the line.
DMUs were intended to haul conventional carriages, and sometimes did (more often vans but also passenger carriages). It was one of the reasons why dmus had vacuum brakes while emus had more effective air brakes. The mu engine controls connection didn't go through to hauled vehicles at the back but the vacuum brakes did. So they could be hauled, without engine running, by a loco in mixed formations.

Summer trains without heating were standard, whether the loco could provide it or not. Lighting was always by batteries recharged by axle-driven generators on each vehicle, so these would also work as normal, provided they were switched on before starting, which was normal in the old days anyway - again except for emus, which commonly had central guard control.

The whole concept of "scratch sets" was not really one employed a generation ago and before, when formations were put together as required. Many services, of course, had a standard and documented formation, but remarshalling during the day was common, even such issues as a late rush of passengers and the loco would go off for a couple of extra coaches.

Cheers, perhaps one of the last high-speed (90+mph) vacuum braked workings?
Vacuum brake was no bar to 100mph operation - this had taken place from the start of electric working in 1960, when air brake didn't even come along until 1967. The restriction was only on B1 bogied vehicles; Commonwealth and B4 were for full speed, and most of the post-1959 Mk 1 build had these. So did the BG vans, but not the GUVs and lesser ones. However, there were no air braked Mk 1 passenger vehicles, and even the first build of Mk 2 were the same.

Given that signal spacings and associated speed restrictions were put in place for vacuum stock, when better air braking came along that provided a much greater margin.
 
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hexagon789

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I believe that for a time in the late 1970s and early '80s you used to get Class 20-hauled trains on the Hull-Scarborough line formed of scratch sets consisting of a mixture of conventional loco-hauled Mark 1s and Class 123/124 Trans-Pennine DMU cars.

Presumably the train heating and interior lighting wouldn't work in that case, although in the summer that wouldn't be too much of a problem during daylight hours provided that there were no tunnels on the line.

There's a photo of a Scarborough-Bridlington formed of 124 trailers hauled by double 20s here on the railcar website: https://railcar.co.uk/images/17036
 

furnessvale

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I would say - a set of coaching stock which either differs from the booked formation and is formed of a variety of types of stock OR a set of coaching stock hastily assembled to replace stock on another service
Following an accident at Willesden years ago, all services at Euston were cancelled. We were all sent to St Pancras where, eventually a scratch set for Crewe turned up. It was mainly BGs with a couple of BSKs. Probably a couple of thousand of us crushed into the cages.

Most unusually, nobody was complaining. We knew the situation and had a good laugh all the way to Crewe.
 

hexagon789

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Following an accident at Willesden years ago, all services at Euston were cancelled. We were all sent to St Pancras where, eventually a scratch set for Crewe turned up. It was mainly BGs with a couple of BSKs. Probably a couple of thousand of us crushed into the cages.

Most unusually, nobody was complaining. We knew the situation and had a good laugh all the way to Crewe.

There was reference to a single Mk1 BG as a DMU replacement somewhere in the Midlands iirc, in the late-'80s or early-'90s
 

AndyW33

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I certainly saw a single MK1 BG and a Class 47 replacing a missing DMU on a Manchester Victoria - Oldham Circle train. The set of coaches had started out as 4 vehicles when it was drafted in to cover the collapse of Newton Heath's heritage DMU fleet, but due to absolutely no maintenance over a couple of weeks the three coaches with seated accommodation had all been red carded, leaving just the BG. This did seem to provoke some reaction and some more elderly coaches were dredged up the next week.
I'm not aware of the same happening in the Midlands, but it may well have done.
 

hexagon789

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I certainly saw a single MK1 BG and a Class 47 replacing a missing DMU on a Manchester Victoria - Oldham Circle train. The set of coaches had started out as 4 vehicles when it was drafted in to cover the collapse of Newton Heath's heritage DMU fleet, but due to absolutely no maintenance over a couple of weeks the three coaches with seated accommodation had all been red carded, leaving just the BG. This did seem to provoke some reaction and some more elderly coaches were dredged up the next week.
I'm not aware of the same happening in the Midlands, but it may well have done.

That actually sounds like the example I was thinking of but I mis-remembered the area
 
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