Seeking help for TFL prosecution

[Hthrowaway123]

Hi all in Rail UK forum, I would like to seek help for dealing for the TFL prosecution letter. First for the background:

• We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example:
  • The stations where you started & finished your journey; Start at Slough to go to Paddington
  • The stations where you changed trains (if applicable); Elizabeth line.
  • If you presented a ticket(s), the information stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details; I presented a ticket that was bought on the train using trainline and was told it was invalid because I bought it when I saw the TFL staff.
  • What happened in any encounter with railway staff; Try to convince the staff that I bought it before I hopped on the train with the ticket bought but failed. Left my personal details, have to exit the station, and then bought a new ticket to continue my journey.
  • Uploading copies of any paperwork (with personal details redacted) with your post. Attached in the post.
• Be careful not to post anything incriminating or personally identifying
• We need to know what outcome(s) you would consider satisfactory I hope to settle this without any court summoning and criminal prosecution

Can you guide me on drafting a response email to the TFL, and what I should expect the outcome to be? This is what I have drafted so far:

Dear Investigations Appeals and Prosecutions Team,

On 16th September 2023, at around 9:15 am, I was travelling from Slough to Paddington via the Elizabeth line. On the journey near Ealing Broadway, I was stopped by the TFL staff for not having any valid tickets at the time of using the train. I sincerely apologise for not buying a ticket before boarding the train. I was in a hurry to catch the train, and I forgot to buy a ticket. I realized that I did not have a valid ticket when a TFL staff approached me and asked me to show my ticket. I panicked and tried to buy a ticket on my phone through trainline, but it was too late. I know that this was a stupid and irresponsible thing to do, and I feel very ashamed and sorry for it. I hope that you can understand that this was a one-off mistake and that you can give me a chance to settle this matter out of court. I am willing to pay for the missed fare and any additional administrative fee that you may charge me. Thank you for your time and attention. I appreciate your consideration of my case. Please let me know if there is anything else that I need to do or provide to resolve this issue.

Yours sincerely,

 

[AlterEgo]

How did you get through the ticket barriers at Slough?

What ticket did you present? Where was it valid from and to? Did you present an actual ticket, or just a booking confirmation email?

 

[Hthrowaway123]

How did you get through the ticket barriers at Slough?

What ticket did you present? Where was it valid from and to? Did you present an actual ticket, or just a booking confirmation email?

I got through the ticket barrier by buying a Slough to Windsor return ticket. The ticket I presented that I bought on the train is Slough to Paddington, on 16th September. It is an actual ticket in trainline, with booking confirmation and a scannable QR code, but since I was told it was invalid I have asked for a refund for that ticket. The purchase record of both tickets are in the Trainline app.

 

[Gloster]

A query from a non-expert. You say that you forgot to buy the ticket to London from Slough but you did buy one from Slough to Windsor to get through the barriers. As said, I am not an expert, but this seems a bit odd.

 

[alholmes]

A query from a non-expert. You say that you forgot to buy the ticket to London from Slough but you did buy one from Slough to Windsor to get through the barriers. As said, I am not an expert, but this seems a bit odd.

And this is a big problem. In your draft response you’re saying you forgot to buy a ticket. But that’s not true - you bought a ticket to Windsor, presumably to save some money? Remember, TfL will have checked your entire purchase history on Trainline by now, so they’ll have seen your Slough to Windsor ticket purchase, and they’ll have seen it was used to enter the ticket gates.

And they’ll be able to see if you’ve done similar on other dates, to determine whether it’s genuinely a one-off mistake.

Don‘t say anything in your response to TfL that is demonstrably false, it may make matters worse for you.

 

[Hthrowaway123]

And this is a big problem. In your draft response you’re saying you forgot to buy a ticket. But that’s not true - you bought a ticket to Windsor, presumably to save some money? Remember, TfL will have checked your entire purchase history on Trainline by now, so they’ll have seen your Slough to Windsor ticket purchase, and they’ll have seen it was used to enter the ticket gates.

And they’ll be able to see if you’ve done similar on other dates, to determine whether it’s genuinely a one-off mistake.

Don‘t say anything in your response to TfL that is demonstrably false, it may make matters worse for you.

Thank you both for your suggestion. How should I modify my response accordingly to make it more favorable and to settle this matter out of court?

 

[alholmes]

Have a look at the good advice that @Hadders gives on other threads. But be aware, TfL are an operator that tend to go for prosecution rather than out of court settlement, although there have been a few cases where they’ve offered settlements.

 

[island]

I was in a hurry to catch the train, and I forgot to buy a ticket.

I got through the ticket barrier by buying a Slough to Windsor return ticket.

We try our best to help everyone on the forum but we cannot do so if you are going to lie to us. Forgetting to buy a ticket is in a different league to buying a ticket to the very cheapest destination to get through the barriers.

Is there anything else in your posts that you’d like to revise before we proceed?

 

[Hthrowaway123]

We try our best to help everyone on the forum but we cannot do so if you are going to lie to us. Forgetting to buy a ticket is in a different league to buying a ticket to the very cheapest destination to get through the barriers.

Is there anything else in your posts that you’d like to revise before we proceed?

Other than that, my actual destination is Cambridge. At Ealing Broadway station, I bought a same-day return ticket from Slough to Cambridge using trainline app with physical ticket. But otherwise the rest of the story is accurate.

Other than that, my actual destination is Cambridge. At Ealing Broadway station, I bought a same-day return ticket from Slough to Cambridge using trainline app with physical ticket. But otherwise the rest of the story is accurate.

But at the time facing the TFL staff, I was in a panic and told the staff I was travelling to Paddington. I also am not sure if I should proceed with my trip to Cambridge, because it seems to be a bad day that is not fit for travelling. Indeed the train service between Royston and Cambridge has stopped and I cannot get there after 4.5 hours leaving Slough.

 

[alholmes]

The ticket you bought on the train, which the inspector realised had only been purchased when you saw them approaching, was from Slough to Paddington, purchased through Trainline with a QR code. Correct?

But now, you’re mentioning a Slough to Cambridge ticket - was this purchased on the train? If not, where was it purchased? Why did you alight at Ealing Broadway, is that where you bought the ticket? I don’t think this is available as an e-ticket - which is presumably what you meant by physical ticket. Again, if you bought it through Trainline, TfL now have evidence that you were avoiding purchasing a Slough-Cambridge ticket, not a Slough-Paddington ticket.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

TfL take fare abuse very seriously and they don't normally offer out of court settlements. A further problem here is that TfL will be able to check your Trainline ticket purchasing history and frequent purchases of Slough to Windsor tickets would not look good.

I'm not exactly clear what your actual journey was. You mention Slough to Paddington - how were you planning to exit the barriers at Paddigton? Then you mention Cambridge - again, what tickets were you planning on using to make the journey? Does your Trainline purchase history show purchases of tickets from somewhere like Foxton to Cambridge? Why did you leave the train at Ealing Broadeay?

 

[Hthrowaway123]

=

The ticket you bought on the train, which the inspector realised had only been purchased when you saw them approaching, was from Slough to Paddington, purchased through Trainline with a QR code. Correct?

But now, you’re mentioning a Slough to Cambridge ticket - was this purchased on the train? If not, where was it purchased? Why did you alight at Ealing Broadway, is that where you bought the ticket? I don’t think this is available as an e-ticket - which is presumably what you meant by physical ticket. Again, if you bought it through Trainline, TfL now have evidence that you were avoiding purchasing a Slough-Cambridge ticket, not a Slough-Paddington ticket.

The ticket you bought on the train, which the inspector realised had only been purchased when you saw them approaching, was from Slough to Paddington, purchased through Trainline with a QR code. Correct?

Correct, but I have ask for refund since it is no longer valid as per the inspector

But now, you’re mentioning a Slough to Cambridge ticket - was this purchased on the train? If not, where was it purchased? Why did you alight at Ealing Broadway, is that where you bought the ticket? I don’t think this is available as an e-ticket - which is presumably what you meant by physical ticket. Again, if you bought it through Trainline, TfL now have evidence that you were avoiding purchasing a Slough-Cambridge ticket, not a Slough-Paddington ticket.

Timeline:
I was stopped at Ealing Broadway. I was escorted out of the gate. I bought the ticket with trainline of Slough-Cambridge in trainline. I entered the station gate with oyster, took the tube to Farringdon. I exit the tube gate with oyster. I get the physical ticket. I enter the gate as I showed the staff my physical ticket as I cant enter with my ticket. I got to King's cross with thameslink. I went to Royston through train from King's cross.
That's basically the day.

=

The ticket you bought on the train, which the inspector realised had only been purchased when you saw them approaching, was from Slough to Paddington, purchased through Trainline with a QR code. Correct?

Correct, but I have ask for refund since it is no longer valid as per the inspector

But now, you’re mentioning a Slough to Cambridge ticket - was this purchased on the train? If not, where was it purchased? Why did you alight at Ealing Broadway, is that where you bought the ticket? I don’t think this is available as an e-ticket - which is presumably what you meant by physical ticket. Again, if you bought it through Trainline, TfL now have evidence that you were avoiding purchasing a Slough-Cambridge ticket, not a Slough-Paddington ticket.

Timeline:
I was stopped at Ealing Broadway. I was escorted out of the gate. I bought the ticket with trainline of Slough-Cambridge in trainline. I entered the station gate with oyster, took the tube to Farringdon. I exit the tube gate with oyster. I get the physical ticket. I enter the gate as I showed the staff my physical ticket as I cant enter with my ticket. I got to King's cross with thameslink. I went to Royston through train from King's cross.
That's basically the day.

It was a messy day, I kept changing my travel plan, after being stopped by TFL staff at Ealing broadway.

Welcome to the forum!

TfL take fare abuse very seriously and they don't normally offer out of court settlements. A further problem here is that TfL will be able to check your Trainline ticket purchasing history and frequent purchases of Slough to Windsor tickets would not look good.

I'm not exactly clear what your actual journey was. You mention Slough to Paddington - how were you planning to exit the barriers at Paddigton? Then you mention Cambridge - again, what tickets were you planning on using to make the journey? Does your Trainline purchase history show purchases of tickets from somewhere like Foxton to Cambridge? Why did you leave the train at Ealing Broadeay?

TfL take fare abuse very seriously and they don't normally offer out of court settlements. A further problem here is that TfL will be able to check your Trainline ticket purchasing history and frequent purchases of Slough to Windsor tickets would not look good.

Yes I do have frequent purchases of Slough to Windsor tickets, which does not look good, last time in July.

 

[Stuwhu]

This is very confusing

 

[Hthrowaway123]

Yes I think laying out the whole situation just make it more complicated and confusing. What about reducing details as follows?

On 16th September 2023, I was travelling from Slough via the Elizabeth line. On the journey near Ealing Broadway, I was stopped by the TFL staff for not having any valid tickets at the time of using the train. I sincerely apologise for not buying a ticket before boarding the train. I realized that I did not have a valid ticket when a TFL staff approached me and asked me to show my ticket. I panicked and tried to buy a ticket on my phone through trainline, but it was too late. I know that this was a stupid and irresponsible thing to do, and I feel very ashamed and sorry for it. I hope that you can understand that this was a mistake and that you can give me a chance to settle this matter out of court. I am willing to pay for the missed fare and any additional administrative fee that you may charge me. Thank you for your time and attention. I appreciate your consideration of my case. Please let me know if there is anything else that I need to do or provide to resolve this issue.

 

[Hadders]

I would not say it was a mistake, you said you've purchased Slough to Windsor tickets several times before. An error of judgement might be a better way to describe it.

 

[Hthrowaway123]

I would not say it was a mistake, you said you've purchased Slough to Windsor tickets several times before. An error of judgement might be a better way to describe it.

Would this work?

Dear Investigations Appeals and Prosecutions Team,

On 16th September 2023, I was travelling from Slough via the Elizabeth line. On the journey near Ealing Broadway, I was stopped by the TFL staff for not having any valid tickets at the time of using the train. I sincerely apologise for not buying a ticket before boarding the train. I realized that I did not have a valid ticket when a TFL staff approached me and asked me to show my ticket. I panicked and tried to buy a ticket on my phone through trainline, but it was too late. I know that this was a stupid and irresponsible thing to do, and I feel very ashamed and sorry for it. I hope that you can understand that this was an error of judgement, and that you can give me a chance to settle this matter out of court. I am willing to pay for the missed fare and any additional administrative fee that you may charge me. Thank you for your time and attention. I appreciate your consideration of my case. Please let me know if there is anything else that I need to do or provide to resolve this issue.

Yours sincerely

 

[BRX]

I realized that I did not have a valid ticket when a TFL staff approached me

This is a lie, right? You didn't just "realise" at this point, you were intentionally travelling without a valid ticket and it seems they will be able to see this from your purchase history.

 

[AlterEgo]

TfL know exactly what you’ve done so there is little point glossing over it. You deliberately evaded the fare and were caught doing it, and TfL are likely to have audited your online purchase accounts to see how often you’ve used this strategy.

You don’t need to offer them more evidence or more admissions than they ask for, and you should keep your reply focused only on the day you were stopped, but you should not attempt to mislead them further.

Unfortunately TfL do not often offer out of court settlements to people who have been caught *deliberately* fare evading, but there is no harm in trying. The most likely outcome is that you will be prosecuted in the Magistrates’ Court for a bylaw offence, but this is not a given.