Selby to Doncaster validity

[mikeg]

I note there are two sets of fares from Selby to Doncaster, 'not via lds/yrk' and 'any permitted'.

Yet the any permitted appears to add no validity. My question is this: Were there any more permitted routes in the orignial routeing guide and if so, does anyone know when and why they were removed, making the any permitted ticket redundant?

At best, it's slightly misleading as the presence of a not lds/yrk ticket implies that the any permitted ticket should be valid these ways.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Good question. So, does the route "Any Permitted" fare between Selby and Doncaster, which is priced by LNER, allow indirect travel via Leeds or York, which the route "not Leeds / York", priced by Northern, presumably doesn't? And how about indirect travel via Gilberdyke?

P.S. There is a third variant (walk-up) ticket for Selby to Doncaster journeys, which is even cheaper, i.e. "Hull Trains only".

 

[Haywain]

I believe the Any Permitted route is valid via Leeds or via York.

 

[mikeg]

If it is, why is NRE producing itineraries via Leeds but showing no fares?

 

[jfollows]

The routeing guide maps (https://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps) defined for the "any permitted" Selby-Doncaster routes are
YL
HL+DW
which appear to exclude both Leeds and York, but allow travel via Goole and Gilberdyke.
There are a number of - mainly negative - easements (http://iblocks-rg-publication.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/easement_text.pdf) relating to Selby but these do not seem to apply to Selby-Doncaster, the closest match is

030048 Journeys from Kings Cross, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark North Gate and Retford to Selby, Wressle, Howden and Eastrington may not travel via York on tickets routed via Doncaster. This easement applies in both directions.

but this is not a direct match for just Selby-Doncaster.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thanks for that @jfollows. So why is there the relatively expensive Selby->Doncaster ticket, priced by LNER? On what section of the journey from Selby to Doncaster would you actually be travelling on an LNER service?

 

[Watershed]

Thanks for that @jfollows. So why is there the relatively expensive Selby->Doncaster ticket, priced by LNER? On what section of the journey from Selby to Doncaster would you actually be travelling on an LNER service?

It's probably an oversight dating from the days when Selby to Doncaster would have been permitted via Leeds or York.

 

[jfollows]

Thanks for that @jfollows. So why is there the relatively expensive Selby->Doncaster ticket, priced by LNER? On what section of the journey from Selby to Doncaster would you actually be travelling on an LNER service?

And I think you're referring to the "any permitted" priced by LNER, so it's valid for all operators, not just LNER. Presumably for historic reasons in which LNER continues to price all the "ECML" flows, and I'm old enough to have travelled Selby-Doncaster when it was the ECML. As mikeg said at the start, it appears to give nothing extra over the one priced by Northern explicitly prohibiting travel via Leeds or York.

 

[Wallsendmag]

You wouldn't believe some of the flows that LNER price.

 

[westv]

Thanks for that @jfollows. So why is there the relatively expensive Selby->Doncaster ticket, priced by LNER? On what section of the journey from Selby to Doncaster would you actually be travelling on an LNER service?

There is an LNER service Selby to Doncaster once a day and return once a day.

 

[alistairlees]

There is an LNER service Selby to Doncaster once a day and return once a day.

Yes, but not via Gilberdyke and Goole, which is what Mcr Warrior was referring to.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There is an LNER service Selby to Doncaster once a day and return once a day.

Thanks for clarifying. But that's also a direct service between Selby and Doncaster. Don't see why you couldn't use the Anytime Day Single or Return (route "not Leeds / York") on that token LNER service.

Seems that the OP (@mikeg) has a valid point, in that the much higher priced route "Any Permitted" ticket doesn't seem to offer any additional validity worth paying the extra for.

 

[mikeg]

My point is that the any permitted damn well should be valid those ways given the poor direct service and its high price. Was there a time when it was? If so , its validity should be restored.

 

[IanXC]

The "not via York/Leeds" route was added relatively recently (maybe within the last 5 years?) I seem to recall at the time the effect was:

Not via York/Leeds - valid direct or via Gilberdyke/Brough
Any Permitted - valid via Gilberdyke/Brough, Leeds or York

I feel like there was a thread about this but I can't fine it now. @Max may recall some details of this?

 

[jfollows]

4 May 2017 ( #693 )

Doncaster (DON) to Selby (SBY) lose DO
This journey no longer has any mapped routes via York.
An "any permitted" Doncaster-Selby ticket still lets you travel via Gilberdyke, so it's not a complete waste.

 

[mikeg]

Thanks. I wonder what the response of daft focus was to the necessary consultation on changing the validity...

Also were it not for hull trains these two places with much in common would not have much in the way of links. It seems odd that the presence of HT is being used as an excuse to reduce validity.