Sheffield Station north throat

[YorkshireBear]

Re-opening Victoria doesn't sound good to me. Sheffield Midland is on the edge of the city centre as it is when compared to other major stations like Leeds and Nottingham. Victoria is even less accessible and the walk would be difficult across Park Square and the Ring Road.

Sheffield Midland is also well-connected to the Interchange although this has plenty of spare capacity and would be better if served by all the main bus routes (e.g. the 52).

Having two stations would also make connections harder and mean splitting services between the two. The best plan would be to make the best use of the existing Midland station.

But we have the problem that at the moment not only is the north throat very restrictive but we cant use as many 4 car trains if the oppurtunity arises due to the length of platforms in 3&4... I want to add a second deck to the station from the south sounds simple.

How used are the through roads? Cos i only see them for over night stabling.

 

[tbtc]

Re-opening Victoria doesn't sound good to me. Sheffield Midland is on the edge of the city centre as it is when compared to other major stations like Leeds and Nottingham. Victoria is even less accessible and the walk would be difficult across Park Square and the Ring Road

My idea for "Victoria" would be to have it on the line towards Darnall, by Nunnery Square P&R/ Tram Stop. This would give a frequent tram service into the city, as well as allowing certain services to serve both stations if required

Sheffield Midland is also well-connected to the Interchange although this has plenty of spare capacity and would be better if served by all the main bus routes (e.g. the 52)

There's going to be even more capacity at the bus station when the 40 is withdrawn later this month. Its getting quieter and quieter. If it wasn't for the FreeBee buzzing around every few minutes (and the fact that the daft layout means some buses have to do long laps around to serve their stance) it'd look pretty empty.

 

[YorkshireBear]

My idea for "Victoria" would be to have it on the line towards Darnall, by Nunnery Square P&R/ Tram Stop. This would give a frequent tram service into the city, as well as allowing certain services to serve both stations if required



There's going to be even more capacity at the bus station when the 40 is withdrawn later this month. Its getting quieter and quieter. If it wasn't for the FreeBee buzzing around every few minutes (and the fact that the daft layout means some buses have to do long laps around to serve their stance) it'd look pretty empty.

They messing about with buses in sheffield again? its getting ridiculous i live in chapeltown area and theyve messed about with it so much, i came back from university and i was just like.... what.....

If sheffield ever gets a branch of High speed 2 it will probably be at nunnery square i imagine. With a small tram link.
Infact with your proposal of opening it there id have some tram bay platforms and have a meadowhall situation with shuttles through to the University stop, or the one after and install some points so they can turn around.

 

[route:oxford]

Ok, quick Sheffieldish query, that is tentatively linked to this thread anyway...

When arriving in Sheffield yesterday (at least, I think it was Sheffield) from Birmingham, we exited a tunnel. To the left was a long siding with washing facility that ended at a tunnel entrance.

Where did that tunnel lead to?

 

[Tomnick]

If I'm not mistaken, the tunnel (or a tunnel in the vicinity) used to carry the Down line ex-Chesterfield under both the Hope Valley lines to bring it out on the west side of the station, where the long siding is now.

 

[telstarbox]

There's going to be even more capacity at the bus station when the 40 is withdrawn later this month. It's getting quieter and quieter. If it wasn't for the FreeBee buzzing around every few minutes (and the fact that the daft layout means some buses have to do long laps around to serve their stance) it'd look pretty empty.

What a pain in the arse. The 52 is one of the busiest routes in Sheffield (about 12 buses per hour, served by both companies end to end) yet to use it from the station you have to trek up to Castle Market, McDonald's or Arundel Gate. Where will the 40 run?

Anyway, back on topic - could capacity be improved in the following way?

-Move the Hope Valley stopper to the far end of platform 1 which also handles stoppers coming in from the north and is lightly used
-Use platform 2C and 7 (where available) for the EMT services to Liverpool and Norwich, all of which reverse in the station
-This frees up platforms 2 and 5 more
-Platform 6 stays dedicated to southbound XCs

 

[SuperOwl86]

Service 40 has gone in a couple of weeks due to SYPTE.

Regarding Sheffield would an idea be to put a cross over on platform 1 and 5, for example while i train is in 1B a train can go round and access 1A. also by using 5 more you can get two trains using the north throat at the same time.

Now to High Speed rail I dont see Nunnery square being used at all, i would thing it would skirt the boarder of Sheffield and Rotherham come in towards Beighton and Woodhouse towards Tinsley.

 

[tbtc]

Regarding Sheffield would an idea be to put a cross over on platform 1 and 5, for example while i train is in 1B a train can go round and access 1A. also by using 5 more you can get two trains using the north throat at the same time

Thats a good idea, especially as there's a middle road there, seems daft that a whole platform-face is wasted when there's just a thirty metre Pacer using it (on a platform long enough for an HST)
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What a pain in the arse. The 52 is one of the busiest routes in Sheffield (about 12 buses per hour, served by both companies end to end) yet to use it from the station you have to trek up to Castle Market, McDonald's or Arundel Gate. Where will the 40 run?

An even further walk from the end of the month - the High Street stop (McDonalds) is moving to the Church Street stops (which the 40/95/120 etc currently use), so all West Street buses will depart from the same part (presumably the 22 moves down the hill to use the McDonalds stop to compensate - there will be fewer buses up High Street with the 40/42/44/49/120 etc changes, plus the diversion of the 20/25 along Arundel Gate)

The 40 is becoming the 120 (Stagecoach every eight minutes, First every eight minutes - apparently this will better co-ordinate services, but it will also mean no choice/ lost journey opportunities- like no fast bus from Broomhill to the Interchange area)
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They messing about with buses in sheffield again? its getting ridiculous i live in chapeltown area and theyve messed about with it so much, i came back from university and i was just like.... what.....

Nothing significant changing with Chapletown services (75/88 etc staying the same), the big changes are on the "east-west" corridor this time round

 

[martinsh]

If I'm not mistaken, the tunnel (or a tunnel in the vicinity) used to carry the Down line ex-Chesterfield under both the Hope Valley lines to bring it out on the west side of the station, where the long siding is now.

Yes, I remember travelling through it in the mid 1960s

 

[YorkshireBear]

Thats a good idea, especially as there's a middle road there, seems daft that a whole platform-face is wasted when there's just a thirty metre Pacer using it (on a platform long enough for an HST)

Platform 1,2 5,6 could all have this done so that trains can depart and arrive in opposite platforms, lets face it you could even do it with XC when single voyagers are being used. platform 1 has it done one way so does p6 but it never gets used.

 

[Tomnick]

platform 1 has it done one way so does p6 but it never gets used.

I've seen the crossover on platform 1 used plenty of times*, but I think the middle roads between platforms 5 and 6 are only sidings, and thus the mid-platform crossover(s??) aren't signalled for passenger moves.

* - including once when the plan didn't quite work - four-car set arrived from the north and ran straight through to the southern end of the platform to allow the Airport - Cleethorpes train to pass it and arrive at the northern end. The four-car set didn't clear the crossover, so the Cleethorpes had to stand outside (and couldn't use 2 as booked because the Notts - Leeds unit had been allowed to run from Dore Station Jn ahead of it, despite having 10 minutes or so at Sheffield - putting unnecessary delay into the Cleethorpes too). Perhaps confirming earlier thoughts re. regulating decisions at Sheffield?

 

[YorkshireBear]

I've seen the crossover on platform 1 used plenty of times*, but I think the middle roads between platforms 5 and 6 are only sidings, and thus the mid-platform crossover(s??) aren't signalled for passenger moves.

* - including once when the plan didn't quite work - four-car set arrived from the north and ran straight through to the southern end of the platform to allow the Airport - Cleethorpes train to pass it and arrive at the northern end. The four-car set didn't clear the crossover, so the Cleethorpes had to stand outside (and couldn't use 2 as booked because the Notts - Leeds unit had been allowed to run from Dore Station Jn ahead of it, despite having 10 minutes or so at Sheffield - putting unnecessary delay into the Cleethorpes too). Perhaps confirming earlier thoughts re. regulating decisions at Sheffield?

I think that might be more down to driver error, the southern end fo p1 can easily take 4 cars... expecially if its a pacer it just needs to go a bit further to end.

 

[Tomnick]

Perhaps so, I'm not sure. I was quite keen to get home and wasn't too chuffed to see that my train had clearly been regulated behind something that stood for ages at Sheffield (and then of course we were stuck behind the stopper after Aldwarke Jn...).

 

[YorkshireBear]

Perhaps so, I'm not sure. I was quite keen to get home and wasn't too chuffed to see that my train had clearly been regulated behind something that stood for ages at Sheffield (and then of course we were stuck behind the stopper after Aldwarke Jn...).

I will look when i go to sheffield on way home tonight failing that monday morning...

does seem strange i agreem maybe something to do with different speeds ie 158 hits dore junction faster than the 185 off hope valley

 

[Tomnick]

does seem strange i agreem maybe something to do with different speeds ie 158 hits dore junction faster than the 185 off hope valley

Only if the Signalman lets it .

 

[Tracked]

Another suggestion after travelling through last night, move platform 1 closer to Sheffield.

It looked like there was enough space for another line past Brightside, get rid of the current platform 1, add a line through where the current platform is - branching off approx where the tram points are for their 2 platforms - and build a new one a bit further down.

Instead of path up for wheelchairs/buggies turning back on itself to the waiting room take it straight down to the new platform just at the back of the substation thing, then add a line right down to Attercliffe.

Also, the suggestion I made about Barnsley trains branching off, there's space to extend the line that goes behind Brightside station for a similar distance, there's still a bit of rusty track in situ.

I'm not sure if 2 could be moved down a bit to do the same as the junction & car park are in the way at the moment, I can't see them changing the car park but if the Sheffield-Barnsley trains are branching off earlier then the junction could be a possibility.