Shepperton to Exeter Via Waterloo LSWR Routes

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STEVIEBOY1

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Good evening, I am hoping, if we are allowed, to have a couple of nights in Exeter to meet a friend just before Christmas, perhaps Tue to Thurs 15-17 Dec. As I live in SWR land, it makes sense to go on the Waterloo/Exeter Central services, I know GWR may be quicker, but by the time I have gone across from Wat to Pad, I may just as well stay with SWR and just come in and out of Waterloo, I like that route anyway.

My journey ideally would be, Shepperton to Waterloo, Waterloo to Exeter & rtn from Exeter to Clapham Jct and then from there to SHP.

I want to join the out bound train at Waterloo to get a good seat, I have joined before sometime at CLJ, but the trains are often quite full, especially if they only put on a 3 carriage train which does happen, but will change at Clapham Jct on the way home, however, apart from doing separate tickets which on this occasion seem to be more expensive than through tickets from SHP, the SWR Website either wants me to change both way at CLJ or routes me via LUL & Pad, I tried selecting via Salisbury but it made no difference.

Any suggestions please.? I just bought a senior railcard too so get 33% discount. :D

Many Thanks.
 
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30907

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Assuming you want Offpeak not Advances?
Putting Honiton into NRE shows the route HONITON NOT LONDON at £59.85 but routes me outward via WAT anyway. With that itinerary to hand, you are entitled to use it.
If you can't replicate the itinerary when you come to travel, then a paper Anytime Day Return CLJ-WAT is £4.45, and this is still nearly £5 cheaper than the HONITON + fare (which would permit a silly tube trip en route!).
(I don't think you'd need to pass through the barriers at WAT anyway?)
 

Class800

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Likely to have to pass barriers as Shepperton services use quite different platforms at Waterloo than Salisbury ones
 

30907

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Likely to have to pass barriers as Shepperton services use quite different platforms at Waterloo than Salisbury ones
OK not been there for some years.
But with an itinerary to hand you should be able to be let through.
 

Class800

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I would agree yes with an itinerary if you can get one. Shepperton tends to be platform 3 or 4 at Waterloo. The Salisbury/Exeter services are a bit variable but 7, 8 and 12 are not rare - at Waterloo you need to go out and in at the gateline if not neighbouring platforms. I think Clapham Junction may be seen as the more natural route as a double back to Waterloo. 3-coaches can happen but in experience isn't common - at least until Salisbury when it tends to thin out. Sometimes front 3 beyond Salisbury so ensure in correct portion.
 

David Goddard

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There's actually a few advances left for certain trains on those days, via Waterloo, first class total less than £36
 

alistairlees

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If you can commit to Advance there are ones for £9.90 (with railcard discount) in each direction.

If you start off on the NRE website then there is no need to put any via points in - you wiill be routed via Waterloo on the SWR + SWR option (at least for times like 10.11 from Shepperton).

If you then click through to SWR from NRE this will retain that journey and you have an Advance from Shepperton to Waterloo to Exeter.

I'm sure you could just change at Clapham on the way back.
 

yorkie

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The Honiton Not London fare is not valid via London Waterloo.

If NRE is showing it as valid, then it's another error with SilverRail's implementation of the Routeing Guide.

However if you do obtain an itinerary issued in conjunction with the ticket, then that would be contractually binding.
 

alistairlees

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Hmmm... I can get the £51.70 Shepperton to Exeter Central fare (with a Senior Railcard; it's an SDS for route "Honiton not London", with full price of £78.30) to show on Southern Railway and Trains Can Be Cheaper, for the 10.11 departure from Shepperton on 15th December, with an itinerary that is via London Waterloo. I didn't put in a via location in either case.

The price is wrong too; it should be £51.60. Otherwise it's not (quite) 34% off.
 

yorkie

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Hmmm... I can get the £51.70 Shepperton to Exeter Central fare (with a Senior Railcard; it's an SDS for route "Honiton not London", with full price of £78.30) to show on Southern Railway and Trains Can Be Cheaper, for the 10.11 departure from Shepperton on 15th December, with an itinerary that is via London Waterloo. I didn't put in a via location in either case.

The price is wrong too; it should be £51.60. Otherwise it's not (quite) 34% off.
TCBC offers the 51.70 fare changing at Clapham Junction and the 61.70 fare, with the same journey time, via Waterloo, for me.
 

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Hadders

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Given how lightly loaded trains are at present I wouldn’t worry about getting a decent seat boarding at Clapham Junction.

If you do wish to travel via Waterloo, and use walk on tickets, I’d buy the ‘Honiton not London’ ticket and excess the outward portion to ‘+via Honiton’. A change of route excess on one leg costs half the difference between the two fares which is £4.15 with railcard discount.
 
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Paul Kelly

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The price is wrong too; it should be £51.60. Otherwise it's not (quite) 34% off.
In an article in RAIL a few years ago Barry Doe stated that the railcard discount was traditionally advertised as one third off, but behind the scenes set to 34.0% rather than 33.3% (the data feed allows discount precision to a tenth of a percent) so that, after rounding, the discount would never be less than the advertised one third off.

The traditional rounding was, to the best of my knowledge (and I'm sure I read this in an old fares manual from the 1980s but unfortunately don't have it to hand to check), first round up to the next penny, then round to the nearest 5p. So the rounded price could be up to 2.9p more than the exact amount. And for a low value fare (up to £2-3) the discount could indeed sometimes work out at marginally less than 33.3%. So maybe Barry Doe was wrong?

In this case what I'm calling the "traditional" calculation is £78.30 X 0.66 = £51.678, rounded to £51.70.

I'm aware of an attempt to change the rounding rules a few years ago but most systems (including IPTIS which, to the best of my knowledge, powers NRE) continued to use the old rules at least until very recently. Now it seems NRE is saying the fare is £51.65 (see attached screenshot). This is really confusing me because the Southern Rail site (which also, to the best of my knowledge, uses IPTIS) is showing £51.70 as alistairlees mentions above!

Are NRE and Southern using different versions of IPTIS with different discount rounding? Or has NRE quietly moved away from IPTIS to another journey planner? Very confusing!
 

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alistairlees

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Yes, it is most certainly confsing as to what's going on here. The RDG rules apear to be aimed at ensuring that 34%, rather than 33.33333333%, is always achieved.
 

Haywain

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The discount calculator in Knowledgebase gives a result of £51.70 for a selected discount of 34%.
 

gazr

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Shepperton is only a few miles from Weybridge... Get train to Woking and change there for Exeter. Surely must be cheaper (and quicker) than going via London?
 

43172

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It is both cheaper and quicker to start from Weybridge and go via Woking. Outbound, Weybridge to Exeter Central via Woking is a duration of 3 hours and 10 minutes, while Shepperton to Exeter Central is around 4 hours 27 minutes as NRE will route this via London Waterloo. On the return trip, Exeter Central to Shepperton is a duration of 4 hours 5 minutes with a change at Clapham Junction, while Exeter Central to Weybridge is 3 hours 5 minutes in duration, changing at Woking. Fare wise, National Rail Enquires gives a Off Peak Return ticket for Weybridge to Exeter Central at £50.15, while a Shepperton to Exeter Central Off Peak Return ticket is £59.85 (both with the relevant railcard applied). Apologies if it's long winded, but I wanted to show the reason behind it. (All timings are from NRE, with tickets having the route HONITON NOT LONDON)
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Many thanks for all these suggestions etc, I shall investigate further when I know my exact dates. Stay safe and well everyone.
 

30907

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Pedantically, Walton on Thames is easier from Shepperton, because of the bridges (or lack of them) - but the connection by bus and train seems to work.
 

yorkie

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If it was me I'd be cycling to Walton-on-Thames, which would save about 1 hour compared to the train from Shepperton (the distance only being around double my distance to my local station, which only takes me about 8 minutes).

I suspect @STEVIEBOY1 doesn't have a bike though, but even on foot it's quicker to walk to Walton-on-Thames than start at Shepperton!

Though there is no need to get there under your own steam as there is a direct bus; the 1059 bus gets to Walton station in good time for the 1124 departure, changing at Woking for an easy 'cross-platform' (well, no stairs at least!) connection. Alight at the front of the train to reduce the length of the walk.

Many thanks for all these suggestions etc, I shall investigate further when I know my exact dates. Stay safe and well everyone.

Thanks but, without wishing to go off topic, I can't be fully 'well' until we have our freedoms back.
 
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30907

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.... changing at Woking for an easy 'cross-platform' (well, no stairs at least!) connection. Alight at the front of the train to reduce the length of the walk.
Good spot - I had forgotten about the "new" bay platform at Woking.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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If it was me I'd be cycling to Walton-on-Thames, which would save about 1 hour compared to the train from Shepperton (the distance only being around double my distance to my local station, which only takes me about 8 minutes).

I suspect @STEVIEBOY1 doesn't have a bike though, but even on foot it's quicker to walk to Walton-on-Thames than start at Shepperton!

Though there is no need to get there under your own steam as there is a direct bus; the 1059 bus gets to Walton station in good time for the 1124 departure, changing at Woking for an easy 'cross-platform' (well, no stairs at least!) connection. Alight at the front of the train to reduce the length of the walk.



Thanks but, without wishing to go off topic, I can't be fully 'well' until we have our freedoms back.
I agree with your latter point here. I am really looking forward to being able to get on a train anywhere. Even just from here up the line to Kingston.

I have used the bus sometimes from here to Walton, you have to be careful though, if you don't know the bus stops at Shepperton and Walton Stations. There are two routes, 458 & 555, but in both directions at both stops, they go on opposite sides of the roads to both destinations, if one is running a bit late, you have to hover by the side of the road between stops and be prepared for a quick dash across if necessary!
 

Paul Kelly

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The traditional rounding was, to the best of my knowledge (and I'm sure I read this in an old fares manual from the 1980s but unfortunately don't have it to hand to check), first round up to the next penny, then round to the nearest 5p. So the rounded price could be up to 2.9p more than the exact amount. And for a low value fare (up to £2-3) the discount could indeed sometimes work out at marginally less than 33.3%. So maybe Barry Doe was wrong?

In this case what I'm calling the "traditional" calculation is £78.30 X 0.66 = £51.678, rounded to £51.70.
I have now updated BRfares.com to use the new-style rounding calculation, i.e. £51.65 rather than £51.70 for this example. Various fares will now be showing as 5p cheaper than previously. There are still a few systems showing the "old-style" prices but these are becoming fewer as they gradually go through RDG accreditation and are changed to the new rounding rules!
 

RPI

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3 cars from Waterloo is pretty rare these days, most are 9/8/6 cars as far as Salisbury, from Salisbury to Exeter the majority are now (well, pre covid) 5 or 6 car on weekdays with virtually all of them 6 cars on weekends to Exeter, its usually the front 3/6 that go through to Exeter which keeps them a little quieter from Waterloo as most people going a shorter distance cant be bothered to walk all the way to the front.
 
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