Short Faring Chiltern

[Traindriver37]

Hi,

I was recently caught short faring on Chiltern from Wembley Stadium to Marylebone when I had in fact gone from Denham Golf Club. I initially tried denying it but gave up aver about 3 questions and just admitted to it. On my trainline account, I have done this 4 or 5 times before with 50 or so total journeys and some real purchases inbetween these short faring stints they were over a range of distances with the total loss being about £40 to the company. I am also under 18 and noticed on the Chiltern website that the company will not prosecute unless some conditions are met none of which I have taken part in. I asked multiple times to pay the fine and told them that I would be happy to pay the fine when they send it to me (with remorse of course). I also noticed that they did not take down my parents details when they filled put the form which could give me some leverage as they may not be allowed to correspond directly to me and therefore cannot do it at all.

I just wanted to know what everyone makes of my circumstances and the chances that they will actually get me in front of a judge. I can pay any sort of out of court settlement as I have amassed some substantial savings through weekend work and whatnot that are well above what a judge is able to impose on an adult.

The agent also didnt have a camera of any sort so it is a my word against yours when it comes to details as the conversation was not recorded and he did not write it down whilst I was there. The details he took was my provisional licence number (not the full ID) and my railcard.

 

[stu]

To be honest, your post comes across as a bit cocksure, so I would definitely dial that dial down if/when you have to communicate with Chiltern!

As you've short fared 4 or 5 times before, I think it shows intent to evade fares. All I can say is in the future it'll be better to pay the full fare each and every time (seems you can afford it), and therefore keep your hard earned money to yourself to spend on something else instead of TOC fines.

 

[Traindriver37]

Sorry for the tone, I’m just trying to highlight where I could have some leverage but I am genuinely sorry for what I’ve done. I’ve already gone back to paying normal fares and none of that money that I have is ever spent on myself (Christmas presents etc) and I am reluctant to use my parents money for these kinds of purposes. I know its a shoddy excuse but thats what it is.

 

[jp4712]

Just on your last point about “haven’t broken any if their rules to make it a serious breach where they may be inclined to prosecute” - let’s be clear, you’ve broken the law and by the fact that you’ve done this on numerous occasions, this is deliberate and so you could be prosecuted under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (usually shortened here to RoRA). You need to avoid that if at all possible by being contrite and showing TIL (the company that Chiltern uses to pursue these cases) that it won’t happen again. I expect @Hadders will be along shortly to give you practical advice that you will find useful in responding.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I think, and I'm not an expert, you're still coming at this from the wrong angle. You're simply interested in the technicalities of being able to get off instead of acknowledging what you've done is wrong. The fact is it is repeated deliberate fare evasion and is most definitely against you.
There's nothing you can do, except paying the correct fare every time, until you get a letter. Rest assured Chiltern deal with hundreds of cases a day they know what they're doing. Arguing with them over technicalities isn't going to help you. Remorse and showing you've learnt from it and are paying the correct fare every time is the best way to go.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We see lots of cases of short faring that involve Wembley Stadium to Marylebone tickets. Travelling without a valid ticket is a criminal offence and Chiltern have all the evidence they need to prosecute you. In my view the best course of action is to stop looking for loopholes and concentrate on obtaining an out of court settlement.

Chiltern (or a company called Transport Investigations Limited) will write you you (or possibly to the Parent or Guardian of...) saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you are under 18 it might be best if the letter is written by your parents and mentioning that you are under 18.

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. The train company will be able to search your purchase history and Chiltern will seek compensation for the other occasions on which you have short fared.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around £100 plus the outstanding fares. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.



Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Traindriver37]

I just wanted to say that I genuinely am remorseful for what I’ve done and my attempts at highlighting technicalities don’t help that. Along with this the other occasions where it happened aren’t occasions where I short fared but where it could be implied that I did (This is the first time that I’ve done it but I read some other threads and noticed that TIL usually takes short journeys as short-faring too. I just have a few short journeys as I have recently gotten a bike and station hop one or 2 stops in order to cover longer distances which I do pay for. This is the first time that I have ACTUALLY short fared on purpose. I am sorry that it is coming across wrong.

 

[Deafdoggie]

This is the first time that I have ACTUALLY short fared on purpose.

Just for clarity, have you done it before by accident?

 

[Traindriver37]

No. The stations that I travelled to and from before where I bought a ticket do not have barriers but I am just trying to get ahead of every possible circumstance.

 

[Titfield]

Am I understanding this correctly? You are saying that you wish to travel from A to D. You buy a ticket from A to B and C to D. You take your bike with you and cycle from B to C.

If so this does seem somewhat unbelievable. Having said that all you can do is await the letter from Chiltern / TIL and reply in accordance with the advice given by @Hadders

 

[Traindriver37]

Here is something I have drafted for when the letter comes if they intent to prosecute.

To whom it may concern,

Thank you for your letter regarding the incident that occurred on (date) at Marylebone Station.

I understand the severity of the offence that I have committed and the implications that it has on both you as a company and other commuters that use your services. I also understand that stating my remorse for the actions that I have committed will not make the situation any better. Therefore I would like to highlight that this was a one off incident and assure you it will not happen again.

Along with this I would like to settle this dispute by way of a offer of £250 plus the full price of my fare and any and all admit costs that have arisen through the time spend on my case.

I apologise for my actions and look forward to your reply

Yours Faithfully

(name)

I know it will still be a few months before I get anything back but I just want to have everything prepared for it to just be a copy paste matter to save time.

 

[Haywain]

This is the first time that I have ACTUALLY short fared on purpose.

Really?

On my trainline account, I have done this 4 or 5 times before

 

[Traindriver37]

Really?

Read lower down in the thread

 

[Hadders]

This is all too premature. You don't get to offer them an amount of money.

I suggest you put what's happened to the back of your mind and get on with your life (but do make sure you purchase the correct tickets in future).
Tell your parents about what has happened, then when the letter from Chiltern/TIL arrives post a copy of it in this thread (with personal details redacted) and we'll be happy to help.

 

[Traindriver37]

Thanks @Hadders I was wondering how I would begin a settlement agreement as quickly as possible.

 

[Kilopylae]

I do not think I am alone in struggling to get this straight in my head (no doubt our fault, not yours!) - so let me see if I follow:

1. You have only ever short-fared once, travelling from Denham Golf Club to Marylebone with a Wembley Stadium to Marylebone ticket
2. On four or five previous occasions, you have genuinely travelled from Wembley Stadium to Marylebone. You are concerned that this will appear suspicious in retrospect.
3. You have made about 50 or so unrelated journeys on Chiltern.

Is that it?

 

[Traindriver37]

1. Yes
2. The other cases are not where I have short fared but where I could be suspected of doing so as they are short trips 2 or 3 stops outside of London to make cycling the distance easier as I do not usually travel to London.
3. The 50 or so trips that I have made are all the historical trips on my Trainline account attached to my railcard. These are of varying distance and are all above £15 in costs.

 

[Haywain]

Read lower down in the thread

I've read all of it. I'm afraid all I see is someone looking for a way out by giving a scarcely believable account of their ticket buying history that is full of contradictions. You are going to have to communicate with the teain company and continuing in that way will not help you.

 

[Traindriver37]

I've read all of it. I'm afraid all I see is someone looking for a way out by giving a scarcely believable account of their ticket buying history that is full of contradictions. You are going to have to communicate with the teain company and continuing in that way will not help you.

I understand what I am trying to put across is that this is a first time thing. It may be useful to highlight that the other short journeys were cycle space reserved ones.

 

[dosxuk]

I have done this 4 or 5 times before with 50 or so total journeys and some real purchases inbetween these short faring stints they were over a range of distances with the total loss being about £40 to the company.

Something to bear in mind is that the TOC will consider you to have had no valid ticket at all, so they will calculate the loss as being that of full single walk up tickets for each journey, not just the difference in cost between the ticket(s) you did hold and one that would have allowed you to travel your actual journey. The difference can be quite substantial.

Also, interesting that you said in your original post that these were "short faring stints" but you now say you've only ever done this once. Bit odd to describe a one off incident as "stints" isn't it? While you don't need to incriminate yourself with admitting to offences the TOC currently has no awareness of, you do need to ensure your story is both consistent and truthful.

 

[jp4712]

You need to see it from Chiltern's perspective. I think you're saying that on a journey from A (Denham Golf Club) to D (Marylebone) you sometimes did stations B-C by bike. Does that mean that if they look at your Trainline account they'll find purchases on some days from Denham Golf Club to B, and from C (Wembley Stadium) to Marylebone? This will come across as a very typical set of behaviours known as 'doughnutting' where someone buys a ticket for the start of their journey to get through the barriers, and again at the end of their journey to exit the barriers at Marylebone. I don't know the area well but looking at a map, the roads between any intermediate station and Wembley Stadium look inconvenient for a cyclist and busy - that's how Chiltern will look at it by applying the principle of Occam's razor. The initial advice from @Hadders is, as we see many times on this forum, entirely correct.

 

[Traindriver37]

The trip never ends at Marylebone. Its more like i buy a ticket from denham to gerrards cross

 

[150219]

I'm sympathetic to a certain extent, but I'd quit whilst you're ahead. Gerrards Cross is further out than Denham Golf Club or Denham, which is in the wrong direction.

So, take the advice given by @Hadders and wait for correspondence to arrive, before seeking further advice.

 

[Danberto]

People on here are trying to help but it appears that your posts are confusing. For example, in post #23 you mention "Gerrards Cross" but as far as I can see, this is the 1st time it has been mentioned. As 150219 states it is in the opposite direction to Denham Golf Club or Denham let alone the other stations you have mentioned (Wembley & Marylebone). If people here are confused, imagine what it will look like to whoever deals with it at the TOC.

I suspect that at least for forum members you need to 'break' this down into:
- Journeys taken.
- Age question.

It may well be that in your head everything is perfectly clear, unfortunately, this may not be the case for others. On a forum, questions may be asked and responded to. For somone sitting in an office receiving your correspondance they may well not do this and come to a conclusion either rightly or wrongly based on how they interpret what you say.

 

[Traindriver37]

Sorry for all of this confusion everyone. Just to be clear so everyone can understand. This is my first time. I am a minor meaning that I will probably not be prosecuted as per Chiltern Railways policies as I have not broken any of their views on what makes an offence serious. This is the first journey that I have made into marylebone. The other trips that are mentioned are short journeys eg gerrards cross to denham but they are legitimate ones.

 

[skyhigh]

How old are you?

 

[Dai Corner]

On my trainline account, I have done this 4 or 5 times before with 50 or so total journeys and some real purchases inbetween these short faring stints they were over a range of distances with the total loss being about £40 to the company.

Yet in post #25, before you edited it, I believe you said the journey during which you were caught was a one-off.

People are willing to help but they can't give good advice without full and accurate Information.

 

[yorkie]

I have reverted message edits, so the posts which were edited to be blank have now been restored.

(Many thanks to the members who pressed the report button! we can undelete any number of posts in a fraction of a second)

The original poster has disabled their account, but if they would like to engage with us, they are welcome to email us at [email protected]; our policy is that we will hide a thread of this nature, as a temporary measure, if a request is made to us, and the original poster agrees to update everyone once the matter has been concluded.