Short faring, Trainline app checked.

[mgut]

Hi All,

Looking for advice on how to respond to this letter - i had travelled from southend to gatwick airport but only had a ticket from london bridge to gatwick airport - the man checking tickets scanned it and it bugged for some reason and then he asked to see my trainline app -_-

I know i was evading fare but i rarely travel by train and the main reason was that the fare was so expensive - not a valid excuse i know but when the barriers are open at the station i board at i took my chance. I'm not sure what to actually say to them as the reason because saying its expensive is not going to go well :/ I've seen that on other threads there is a reply template but i cant find this, if anyone is the author/ has it please attach to this file.

Please help! Thank you.

 

[transportphoto]

I guess the first question I’d have is: what ticket did you have and when did you buy it (in relation to your journey)?

 

[Huntergreed]

Hi All,

Looking for advice on how to respond to this letter - i had travelled from southend to gatwick airport but only had a ticket from london bridge to gatwick airport - the man checking tickets scanned it and it bugged for some reason and then he asked to see my trainline app -_-

I know i was evading fare but i rarely travel by train and the main reason was that the fare was so expensive - not a valid excuse i know but when the barriers are open at the station i board at i took my chance. I'm not sure what to actually say to them as the reason because saying its expensive is not going to go well :/ I've seen that on other threads there is a reply template but i cant find this, if anyone is the author/ has it please attach to this file.View attachment 144929View attachment 144930

Please help! Thank you.

Welcome to the forum.

Just to be clear:

- You travelled from Southend - Gatwick Airport, but you only had a ticket from London Bridge - Gatwick Airport.

Are you sure this is accurate? I find it strange this has been picked up at East Croydon as, if this were the case, you would’ve had a ticket valid for this portion of the journey and likely wouldn’t have been challenged. Unless it was an advance ticket and you were on the wrong train.

We need more details:

- What exact ticket did you buy?
- What exact journey did you make?
- How did you buy your ticket?
- Have you done this before?

You need to respond to the letter within 14 days. In your response, you must include the following:

- Apologise for the incident
- State what you have learned
- Assure them it won’t happen again
- Offer to pay the unpaid fare and the costs they have incurred in dealing with the matter.

Keep it short and don’t give a sob story. The railway are normally willing to offer an out of court settlement to those who show genuine remorse and engage constructively with the process.

Once you have drafted a response, post it on here and we will offer amendments before you send it off to the Train Company.

 

[Haywain]

And, further to the questions above, how did you get from Southend (which station in Southend?) to London Bridge/East Croydon without a ticket? This would appear to have involved two or three stations with barriers.

 

[mgut]

I guess the first question I’d have is: what ticket did you have and when did you buy it (in relation to your journey)?

They were purchased on trainline so i'm not 100% sure what the ticket type was as its gone into history now. Change at stratford and there is no barriers there, and then london bridge i tapped in on my phone on the barrier, and got the ticket for the train i boarded once i was sitting on it, on trainline.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are Advance Singles actually available from London Bridge to Gatwick Airport? Might the issue be ticket purchased after departing London Bridge? Not having any ticket from Southend doesn't help much either.

 

[mgut]

Are Advance Singles actually available from London Bridge to Gatwick Airport? Might the issue be ticket purchased after departing London Bridge? Not having any ticket from Southend doesn't help much either.

It could be that - i'm not sure to be honest

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@mgut. Noted what you say.

Might be helpful if you could possibly upload a copy of the letter that you've received from the train company.

Please be sure to obscure any name and address details and case reference number (if any).

 

[transportphoto]

Please be sure to obscure any name and address details and case reference number (if any).

I’m fairly sure this was here earlier but seems to have been edited out.

 

[Iggy12a]

This is not making sense. If you were going to buy a ticket from London Bridge to Gatwick, why tap in on your phone, and then buy a ticket on Trainline? If inspected by the RPI, you would just have tapped your phone, and then if you had tapped out again at Gatwick, as far as the system is concerned you would have travelled legitimately from London Bridge.
As far as I am aware, Advance tickets are not available from London Bridge to Gatwick, and certainly not on the day.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This is not making sense.

Me neither. Think we might be missing some key info.

 

[WesternLancer]

Me neither. Think we might be missing some key info.

The OP says they rarely travel by train - is it possible that they do not understand the ticketing system and inter relationship between using contactless (tapping in) and what they may have done / bought on trainline?

@mgut can you help at all by looking at what you bought on Trainline and detailing it here (as thoroughly as you can) and also looking at your card records to see what was deducted by any contactless payment you made for travel on this journey

Hoping this might help people on the thread trying to help, to work out what has gone wrong here.

 

[Haywain]

Journey from southend central to gatwick airport.

On a post which has now been edited or deleted you stated that you travelled on the underground from Stratford to London Bridge, and used your phone to tap in at London Bridge. How did you get out of the underground at London Bridge? If you didn't touch in to the underground but touched out at London Bridge and then didn't touch out after going through the railway barriers at London Bridge you are likely to have two incomplete journey charges.

The ticket you bought is an Anytime Day Single with a railcard discount. This is a flexible ticket but should still be purchased before boarding a train. However, if you had touched in at London Bridge you could also have touched out at Gatwick Airport and no offence would be committed.

It may be that you were not technically committing an offence at the time you were stopped, but it clearly appears to GTR that you were and that appears to have been your intention. You may not even have saved yourself as much as you thought you were. However, avoiding prosecution will be easier (and cheaper) to achieve by asking GTR to settle the matter than arguing against a prosecution as the latter option is likely to need the (expensive) services of a solicitor. You've got yourself into a right mess.

 

[Huntergreed]

It looks like the OP is now trying to delete all their posts. Presumably because they don’t like the advice they have been given.

I would advise the OP, now that they are aware of the seriousness of the offence, to use the forum to help them try to achieve a positive outcome (an out of court settlement is still very much possible in this instance, and the advice you receive on the forum will go a long way in helping you achieve this outcome).

 

[mgut]

It looks like the OP is now trying to delete all their posts. Presumably because they don’t like the advice they have been given.

I would advise the OP, now that they are aware of the seriousness of the offence, to use the forum to help them try to achieve a positive outcome (an out of court settlement is still very much possible in this instance, and the advice you receive on the forum will go a long way in helping you achieve this outcome).

Hey, no i very much appreciate the advice, i am just concerned my details have been leaked as i have had a message on here and im not sure how to delete the thread

 

[Huntergreed]

Hey, no i very much appreciate the advice, i am just concerned my details have been leaked as i have had a message on here and im not sure how to delete the thread

Thanks everyone

The personal details that you had were only visible on the letter in the opening post which was later removed from the post. If you could re-upload this (with the personal details redacted) then that would be very helpful for us!

The remainder of your posts should be able to be reverted by the moderating team (hit the “report” button and they should be able to revert these for you). It helps us to have as much information as possible

 

[skyhigh]

i am just concerned my details have been leaked as i have had a message on here

If you have had a private message on here that concerns you please report it to one of the Admin team who can look into it. @yorkie might be able to help?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hey, no i very much appreciate the advice, i am just concerned my details have been leaked as i have had a message on here and im not sure how to delete the thread

Hi - whilst it's not really clear to me how the Thameslink staff would have known how you had got from Southend to London Bridge without a ticket - unless you told them voluntarily perhaps (and I know you are trying to be careful with whatever info you share here which is perfectly reasonable), and / or if there was a different ticketing offence committed between London Bridge and Gatwick airport that they picked up (maybe?) - but perhaps being mindful that you knew you had already avoided the fare from Southend you got understandably muddled about what they were accusing you of (perhaps?)

Anyway

It occurs to me that on a general level the way forward in terms of what you could do - to get the 'least worst outcome', which I would think is to seek offer of an 'out of court' settlement - would be to prepare a response to Thameslink along the lines of the general advice usually given here which is to (as per post#3):

write back to them and:

- Apologise for the incident
- State what you have learned
- Assure them it won’t happen again
- Offer to pay the unpaid fare and the costs they have incurred in dealing with the matter.

But do so in a way that does not incriminate you further (ie you can refer to being 'stopped about a ticket irregularity on the date concerned' - as you were stopped , but I don't see that you need to overtly state where you started your journey from for example or give details like that that may make things more difficult for you)

Would this provide a way forward?

I am sure others will say if they think this idea is a mistake.

But rest assured, on the basis of any info you can give, whilst retaining your personal confidentiality, people here will certainly do their best to suggest what you can do to avoid being prosecuted.

 

[Brissle Girl]

They were purchased on trainline so i'm not 100% sure what the ticket type was as its gone into history now. Change at stratford and there is no barriers there, and then london bridge i tapped in on my phone on the barrier, and got the ticket for the train i boarded once i was sitting on it, on trainline.

Like others I'm trying to work out what you were picked up for. This may be a clue though - you are not allowed to purchase a ticket online once on a train - it has to be done before you board. This may be what drew you to the examiner's attention.

But you also say you tapped in at the barrier, in which case you did have a valid ticket. Unfortunately, as you presented an invalid one, the valid ticket is of little use, other than maybe to demonstrate to the investigator that you were trying to do the right thing, albeit got confused. (Obviously this only relates to the portion of the journey from London down to Gatwick.)

 

[fandroid]

I haven't yet seen the letter that was later deleted, so my comment may be off-beam. Did you confess to starting at Southend with no ticket? No-one on the Gatwick line would have had a clue that you had done this prior to getting on at London Bridge, so you may not have helped yourself there. Did you continue to Gatwick? How did you exit the barriers there? With the online ticket you bought, with your phone working as a contactless card, or with another ticket issued by the Inspector?

Whatever else happened, you should be able to find your ticket history in Trainline. It's just a matter of looking in the right place. Also, do as others have advised, check what has been charged to your bank account by Transport for London. They are the ones who manage the contactless ticket system.

 

[Darandio]

If you have had a private message on here that concerns you please report it to one of the Admin team who can look into it. @yorkie might be able to help?

Isn't the threshold to receive a private message five posts? Presumably this message was from a member of staff informing them their details were visible and they've been spooked by not fully understanding what it was or who sent it.

 

[skyhigh]

Isn't the threshold to receive a private message five posts? Presumably this message was from a member of staff informing them their details were visible and they've been spooked by not fully understanding what it was or who sent it.

Hadn't thought of that, good point. Thanks.

 

[Huntergreed]

Like others I'm trying to work out what you were picked up for. This may be a clue though - you are not allowed to purchase a ticket online once on a train - it has to be done before you board. This may be what drew you to the examiner's attention.

But you also say you tapped in at the barrier, in which case you did have a valid ticket. Unfortunately, as you presented an invalid one, the valid ticket is of little use, other than maybe to demonstrate to the investigator that you were trying to do the right thing, albeit got confused. (Obviously this only relates to the portion of the journey from London down to Gatwick.)

As I understand it:

- The OP travelled from Southend (I assume Victoria) to Stratford without a ticket. They are not caught on this leg of the journey.

- They then made their way across to London Bridge on the Jubilee Line. They presumably “tap out” with their phone at the underground gateline here.

- They gained access to the platforms at London Bridge by “tapping in” their phone and they boarded a train to Gatwick Airport.

- They then purchase a ticket onboard (presumably when they noticed the ticket inspectors) from London Bridge to Gatwick Airport). They are subsequently flagged up for having bought a ticket after boarding and interviewed.

It’s not the easiest to piece together, but as I understand it, these seem to be the facts?

If so, it’s important to establish whether the OP admitted to the inspector that they have travelled from Southend, or simply that they didn’t buy a ticket, as this will likely have an impact on the settlement amount, if offered.

 

[Hadders]

Just to clarify:

1. No personal details have been leaked. @mgut uploaded a copy of the letter they received but some personal details were still visible. The post was reported by another forum member and the letter was removed.

2. It would be helpful if the letter was re-uploaded with personal details removed. We really need to see which train company you're dealing with and what they're accusing you of.

3. We could also know with knowing exactly what journey you did and what happened. From what you've told us you travelled:

Southend (presumably Southend Victoria) to Stratford. The barrier were open at the station so you boarded without a ticket
At Stratford you changed to the Underground and went to London Bridge. I assume you took the Jubilee Line?
How did you exit the Underground at London Bridge?
You said you touched in your phone at London Bridge - presumably to enter the National Rail part of the station?
While on the train from London Bridge to Gatwick you used the Trainline app to purchase a ticket from London Bridge to Gatwick Airport
Exactly what ticket did you purchase? You can find this out from your purchase history on the Trainline app.
What happened when the revenue inspector spoke to you? If you'd touched in using your phone when you entered the National Rail station at London Bridge then you had a valid ticket and you didn't need to purchase a ticket from Trainline
Will your ticket purchasing history show you purchased a ticket from Southend Victoria to somewhere like Rochford? If so this could be more problematic.

 

[mgut]

Just to clarify:

1. No personal details have been leaked. @mgut uploaded a copy of the letter they received but some personal details were still visible. The post was reported by another forum member and the letter was removed.

2. It would be helpful if the letter was re-uploaded with personal details removed. We really need to see which train company you're dealing with and what they're accusing you of.

3. We could also know with knowing exactly what journey you did and what happened. From what you've told us you travelled:

Southend (presumably Southend Victoria) to Stratford. The barrier were open at the station so you boarded without a ticket
At Stratford you changed to the Underground and went to London Bridge. I assume you took the Jubilee Line?
How did you exit the Underground at London Bridge?
You said you touched in your phone at London Bridge - presumably to enter the National Rail part of the station?
While on the train from London Bridge to Gatwick you used the Trainline app to purchase a ticket from London Bridge to Gatwick Airport
Exactly what ticket did you purchase? You can find this out from your purchase history on the Trainline app.
What happened when the revenue inspector spoke to you? If you'd touched in using your phone when you entered the National Rail station at London Bridge then you had a valid ticket and you didn't need to purchase a ticket from Trainline
Will your ticket purchasing history show you purchased a ticket from Southend Victoria to somewhere like Rochford? If so this could be more problematic.

Hi Hadders,

Yes correct, no details have been leaked but I don't have the photos on my current device to re upload, will do so tomorrow. and unfortunately correct about Rochford, I know my best option is to seek out of court settlement - any advice on this?

Thanks

As I understand it:

- The OP travelled from Southend (I assume Victoria) to Stratford without a ticket. They are not caught on this leg of the journey.

- They then made their way across to London Bridge on the Jubilee Line. They presumably “tap out” with their phone at the underground gateline here.

- They gained access to the platforms at London Bridge by “tapping in” their phone and they boarded a train to Gatwick Airport.

- They then purchase a ticket onboard (presumably when they noticed the ticket inspectors) from London Bridge to Gatwick Airport). They are subsequently flagged up for having bought a ticket after boarding and interviewed.

It’s not the easiest to piece together, but as I understand it, these seem to be the facts?

If so, it’s important to establish whether the OP admitted to the inspector that they have travelled from Southend, or simply that they didn’t buy a ticket, as this will likely have an impact on the settlement amount, if offered.

He looked at my Trainline app so I had no choice but to.

 

[Huntergreed]

He looked at my Trainline app so I had no choice but to.

Just for the sake of clarity, you’re confirming you told the inspector you travelled from Southend?

They will check your purchase history on Trainline, have you done this at all before?

 

[Hadders]

Hi Hadders,

Yes correct, no details have been leaked but I don't have the photos on my current device to re upload, will do so tomorrow. and unfortunately correct about Rochford, I know my best option is to seek out of court settlement - any advice on this?

Thanks

Upload the letter when you can tomorrow and we'll be happy to advise.

In the meantime you do need to tell us exactly what happened. We've probably teased most of it out but it makes things much harder for us to offer the best advice if we don't have the full picture. For example in your original post you mentioned that the barriers were open and you took your chance. What you actually did was purchase a ticket to Rochford and I suspect a ticket from East Croydon or Horley to Gatwick Airport leaving a gaping hole in the middle. This is important so we can advise how best to reply.

If I (as a non-railway person) can work it out, think how it looks to someone who does this sort of stuff for a living.

 

[WesternLancer]

Upload the letter when you can tomorrow and we'll be happy to advise.

In the meantime you do need to tell us exactly what happened. We've probably teased most of it out but it makes things much harder for us to offer the best advice if we don't have the full picture. For example in your original post you mentioned that the barriers were open and you took your chance. What you actually did was purchase a ticket to Rochford and I suspect a ticket from East Croydon or Horley to Gatwick Airport leaving a gaping hole in the middle. This is important so we can advise how best to reply.

If I (as a non-railway person) can work it out, think how it looks to someone who does this sort of stuff for a living.

I may be wrong but I seem to recall the OP uploaded a screen shot of a ticket London bridge to Gatwick at IIRC £8.70, which I saw earlier today (which has now been removed as per OPs earlier post), but as suggested above by others it may indeed have been purchased after boarding the train at London Bridge.

 

[island]

We also need to know whether a contactless/Oyster card was touched-in at London Bridge, as that would have constituted a valid ticket for that part of the journey.

 

[Haywain]

2. It would be helpful if the letter was re-uploaded with personal details removed. We really need to see which train company you're dealing with and what they're accusing you of.

It was GTR.

I may be wrong but I seem to recall the OP uploaded a screen shot of a ticket London bridge to Gatwick at IIRC £8.70, which I saw earlier today (which has now been removed as per OPs earlier post), but as suggested above by others it may indeed have been purchased after boarding the train at London Bridge.

That's correct.