Should Bridlington be served by long distance trains?

[Halifaxlad]

So York-Beverley plus Market W-Driffield? Can't see the second ever happening, given the difficulty making progress with the first, sorry.

I can see the first (in particular) happening more than York to Beverley!

 

[mike57]

Partially down to the single track sections?

With the hourly service between Brid and Scarborough now the limit is the single line section between Brid and Hunmanby which is over 10 miles and takes around 17 minutes. The last time a rail tour came up to Scarborough from Brid something got out of place and the whole afternoons timetable was trashed, with plenty of upset passengers delayed on the normal services. Problem is anything late running going North holds up the southbound at Hunmanby, and so the whole thing snowballs. Dont get me wrong, the hourly service has made a big difference to usability, its probably the best service this bit of line has seen on a daily basis but I think the line is just about at its capacity, you also have the other single bit between Seamer and Filey as well. On the current timetable trains cross between Filey and Hunmanby, and have nearly 20 mins turn round time in Scarborough, and in general seem pretty reliable.

 

[Killingworth]

With the hourly service between Brid and Scarborough now the limit is the single line section between Brid and Hunmanby which is over 10 miles and takes around 17 minutes. The last time a rail tour came up to Scarborough from Brid something got out of place and the whole afternoons timetable was trashed, with plenty of upset passengers delayed on the normal services. Problem is anything late running going North holds up the southbound at Hunmanby, and so the whole thing snowballs. Dont get me wrong, the hourly service has made a big difference to usability, its probably the best service this bit of line has seen on a daily basis but I think the line is just about at its capacity, you also have the other single bit between Seamer and Filey as well. On the current timetable trains cross between Filey and Hunmanby, and have nearly 20 mins turn round time in Scarborough, and in general seem pretty reliable.

I thought that was likely.

We booked on a Yorkshire coast special 3 or 4 years ago. The bit from Sheffield to Hull for Scarborough was removed within days of booking and it became there and back via York. It was then cancelled. Last time I'd travelled that line was behind a 4-4-0 D49 Hunt!

 

[swissrailpassion]

Bridlington probably enjoys its best ever service through the year. The very comfortable and spotless 170s are a huge improvement on the trains of years ago.
Until the 80's, summer weekend trains from Manchester, Bradford, Leeds, Sheffield still made their way to Brid and the station could be crowded. The wide concourse and 8 platforms were built because they were needed. The crowds in the 20' and 30's were huge. The original up and down lines of G T Andrews station were doubled in 1912 with the building of a new station south of the existing station. The hordes descended until the 1960's and beyond. The town was often rammed with people in their thousands. Daily excursions ran up until the late 70's.
But in the winter the train service was sparse with just the local trains often operated by 2 car DMUs. Connections to the rest of the north at Hull were terrible and at Seamer often non-existent. In the early 80's the last train from Scarborough along the coast in the winter was at 1940. The last train from Brid to Hull was at 2123. There was no Sunday service!

Todays regular regional service is far better and trains run earlier and later than ever. It's possible to visit the town and not worry about connections.

The real problem for Bridlington is the town itself. The coast and beach is beautiful but the resort has not played to its strengths, it has been very slow to adapt. It lacks industry and good schools, it has a large retired population. It had a very decent large hotel, well known in the north, but it was pulled down. More recently, the harbour marina development stalled due to terrible infighting. The prize of superb marina attracting the more wealthy visitors and thus creating a more vibrant economy which would support good hotels and restaurants was lost. The finest restaurants in Biarritz serve Bridlington Bay lobster as an expensive delicacy, but you'll be hard pressed to find anywhere serving it in the town.

All resorts have to make the most of what they have to survive and Brid has been too slow, but things are changing. My hope is to see someone take the plunge, build the marina and open a substantial modern art gallery called 'The Hockney' - that would put Brid back on the map.

 

[IanXC]

Bridlington probably enjoys its best ever service through the year.

Until the December timetable change at least...

 

[mike57]

Bridlington probably enjoys its best ever service through the year. The very comfortable and spotless 170s are a huge improvement on the trains of years ago.
Until the 80's, summer weekend trains from Manchester, Bradford, Leeds, Sheffield still made their way to Brid and the station could be crowded. The wide concourse and 8 platforms were built because they were needed. The crowds in the 20' and 30's were huge. The original up and down lines of G T Andrews station were doubled in 1912 with the building of a new station south of the existing station. The hordes descended until the 1960's and beyond. The town was often rammed with people in their thousands. Daily excursions ran up until the late 70's.
But in the winter the train service was sparse with just the local trains often operated by 2 car DMUs. Connections to the rest of the north at Hull were terrible and at Seamer often non-existent. In the early 80's the last train from Scarborough along the coast in the winter was at 1940. The last train from Brid to Hull was at 2123. There was no Sunday service!

Todays regular regional service is far better and trains run earlier and later than ever. It's possible to visit the town and not worry about connections.

The real problem for Bridlington is the town itself. The coast and beach is beautiful but the resort has not played to its strengths, it has been very slow to adapt. It lacks industry and good schools, it has a large retired population. It had a very decent large hotel, well known in the north, but it was pulled down. More recently, the harbour marina development stalled due to terrible infighting. The prize of superb marina attracting the more wealthy visitors and thus creating a more vibrant economy which would support good hotels and restaurants was lost. The finest restaurants in Biarritz serve Bridlington Bay lobster as an expensive delicacy, but you'll be hard pressed to find anywhere serving it in the town.

All resorts have to make the most of what they have to survive and Brid has been too slow, but things are changing. My hope is to see someone take the plunge, build the marina and open a substantial modern art gallery called 'The Hockney' - that would put Brid back on the map.

We live just north of Brid and I agree with some of what @swissrailpassion says. Brid retains an hourly service northwards post December which is the thing which has made the railway an option for travel towards Scarborough, the previous timetable was just too sparse to be useful. Connections are still a issue at Seamer at certain times (First train from Brid arrives Seamer 06:39, Departure for York also 06:39 for example) but this would be a simple fix.

As for the economy I think a bigger issue is the seasonality. Businesses have to make enough during the season to see themselves through the winter months. Bridlington in January with a Nor-Easter blowing is always going to be bleak whatever happens. The local population at 35000 ish and another maybe 5000 in the surrounding villages is never going to support 'big city' things.

The developments in the area of the railway station are going to make a difference, and it would be nice to see the station cafe open again, but that is unlikely to happen, I think the economics of it dont work, the owners are seeking a rent AND a profit share, to me that just kills it. The station entrance always looks welcoming, with flowers planted in summer, and the ticket window is manned for the greater part of the day, however platform 4 and the footbridge are less pleasent, at least the staff controlled barrow crossing maintains a step free access for those who need it.

Industry is never going to be attracted, its too far from the major centres, and the road links are just not good enough, on the other hand thats what makes it attractive to holidaymakers, so if you brought industry in I suspect you would loose holidaymakers. I'm not going to mention the schools...

The railway still brings in a lot of day trippers during the summer not as many as in earlier times, but not insignificant numbers, but most of the longer stays use cars, and there are a huge number of static caravan sites to the north and south of the town centre, but these are car accessed for the most part.

There are problems but I think the area is best served by doing what it currently does better, and clean up some of the eyesores. The marina/harbour idea is never going to get off the ground, too many vested interests, but a 'Hockney' themed gallery could be popular, and it would introduce people to the Yorkshire Wolds which lie to the west and are very sparsley populated.

To get back to the railway theme I think the hourly Sheffield - Doncaster - Hull - Scarborough service with some enhancements at busy times will become the winter norm, I dont think there are enough passengers to support anything more, and the summer timetable will have extra Hull - Brid services much like the current timetable hopefully with some extra Sunday services during the summer, as Sunday trains have been very busy this summer. But current issues with 'rest day' working make that less likely in the short term. I have often wondered if Hull trains would extend their first and last trains of the day to Bridlington after Beverley, it would be in marginal time, but potential passenger numbers may still not justify it.

 

[swissrailpassion]

I agree with you. I'm surprised the York service has been withdrawn from December. The present timing at 20 minutes after the previous train rather than a balanced 30 minutes is unhelpful and it's rather slow. This means Beverley will have just an hourly service after 60 years of more or less half hourly trains, I can't imagine this going down well. Maybe it is just for this winter whilst numbers are lower after covid. Passenger numbers between Hull and York are not huge. The real market between Hull and York is from Beverley, Market Weighton, Pocklington and Stamford Bridge but hey ho.

A half hourly service from Hull to Leeds would be desirable but the new Halifax service was doomed from birth when TPE moved to the opposite side of the hour.

Meanwhile the long awaited resignalling and rationalisation preparatory work at Bridlington is underway. This must be the biggest rail investment in the town for many years.

 

[mike57]

This means Beverley will have just an hourly service after 60 years of more or less half hourly trains,

I wonder if a Beverley Hull shuttle might be the answer. I just can't see Bridlington passenger numbers being sufficient for a half hourly service during the winter now that there is less commuting. If we still had the Beverley York line then an hourly service from Hull to York via Beverley would have given Beverley the half hourly service that it needs whilst not carting too much fresh air on the rest of the routes.

The summer timetable to Brid could then be strengthened targeted at the day trippers, and some of these services might not call at Beverley, or even Hull if they used the chord by KC stadium, which would bring us back to OPs original question. I think whoever makes the decisions needs to do a proper passenger survey next summer to see where people are coming from. Trouble is if they do one it will probably be on a wet Tuesday in February which may give them the answer they want to hear but won't help us to get the service we need, which I admit may not look like the pre covid service pattern.

 

[swissrailpassion]

To me, the resort needs to move on beyond day-trippers to the quality weekend and flexible short break market. The shoulder season is crucial, not just the summer. It can only do this with better hotels and more diverse things to do. Eco-friendly holidays, walking and hiking, water-based sports, sailing, quality cuisine and weekend conventions and entertainment in the excellent Spa. In the past hoteliers led the way for Brid and created the resort, the fishermen rarely ventured out of the bay until around 1860. By the 1870's Brid had been transformed. New ideas came with the tourists and the town grew. It was an easy thing to build a mass market in those times. These days the town needs to work hard to make itself a viable destination, it is not used to doing this.

In the Blair years they were trying to throw money at the town for the marina. The marina would've tidied up the eyesores in the harbour and brought serious wealth to the town. Local squabbles by vested interests doomed the project and the town has suffered badly as a result. I saw grown men weep after encountering the stubbornness of the local bigwigs and their determined refusal to look a gift horse in the mouth. Until the marina is built Bridlington cannot prosper.

Much of the regeneration has improved the cosmetic look of parts of the town, but without sustained attention to what is needed to give people confidence to open new businesses, create a mixed economy, and revive the place, it will watch Scarborough and Whitby with envy.

Thankfully, the railway has done its bit and provided a better train service.