Should "London Kings Cross" and "London St Pancras" be combined and considered as just one station?

[swt class 450]

I am wondering should London Kings Cross and London St Pancras be combined in to just one station called London Kings Cross St Pancras International instead? What are your thoughts on this?

Personally i think it is rather silly that they are both considered two separate stations when they are right next to each other and are really basically the same station. You can easily walk from the platforms in Kings Cross to the platforms in St Pancras in less than 60 seconds. You can even walk between the two of them without going outside. Also they even share the same London Underground station.

What i am thinking is that they should just be considered to be the same exact station called London Kings Cross St Pancras International and the platforms should be renumbered so that they are in the same series without duplicate numbers.

The platforms could renumbered like this for example:
• 1 to 12 - East Coast Platforms
• 13 to 15 - Southeastern Platforms
• 16 to 21 - Eurostar Platforms
• 22 to 25 - East Midlands Platforms
• 26 to 27 - Thameslink Platforms
• 28 to 29 - LU Circle Line Platforms
• 30 to 31 - LU Northern Line Platforms
• 32 to 33 - LU Piccadilly Line Platforms
• 34 to 35 - LU Victoria Line Platforms

I am thinking that considering them as one station would also make things a lot easier and simpler for passengers. Many passengers who are changing trains might not even realise that they are right next to each other. Also it would add less confusion for passengers travelling to the Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire areas as trains for these stations can now depart from both stations before joining up and following the same route at Finsbury Park station.

They are basically the same station so they should make this clear to passengers by making it one station with one name instead of two stations with two names.

What are you thoughts on this idea? I would be interested to hear any views on what you think of this?

 

[John Webb]

Nonsense! They are two separate stations on different levels serving different routes from each. It would cause more confusion than their present arrangement, I think. And would you get the station name on a ticket without abbreviation?

I'd accept that the low-level Thameslink platforms might be candidates for a joint name - but they are the far side of St Pancras to Kings Cross.

 

[Adlington]

making it one station with one name instead of two stations with two names.

"London Kings Cross St Pancras International" rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? And surely it would fit nicely on standard cardboard tickets ....

 

[PR1Berske]

"LDN KGX and STPI" is a perfect fit.

 

[Aictos]

Nonsense! They are two separate stations on different levels serving different routes from each. It would cause more confusion than their present arrangement, I think. And would you get the station name on a ticket without abbreviation?

I'd accept that the low-level Thameslink platforms might be candidates for a joint name - but they are the far side of St Pancras to Kings Cross.

Indeed it's just a solution looking for a problem, after all you have Waterloo East served by South Eastern and London Waterloo served by South Western Railway which serve different routes yet nobody has suggested renaming Waterloo East to London Waterloo with it's platforms being renumbered to Platforms 26 to 29....

 

[superalbs]

The connection times between them should be reduced, but I don't think merging them is the answer. 31 minutes is ridiculous really.

 

[pdeaves]

nobody has suggested renaming Waterloo East to London Waterloo with it's platforms being renumbered to Platforms 26 to 29....

True, but being A-D the chance of confusion is reduced (not two different 1-4s). user1234's suggestion sort of does that at KX/StP but using entirely numbers and no letters (which, as you no doubt know, are already used on the low level 'Thameslink' platforms partially solving the potential confusion issue).

 

[EM2]

...and are really basically the same station.

Well, they aren't. Just the fact they are close to each other doesn't make them the same place.
Would you say the same for the Wigan stations, or the Catford ones?

 

[edwin_m]

If it was all the same station then the connection time would have to be for the worst case distance between platforms.

 

[6Gman]

You can easily walk from the platforms in Kings Cross to the platforms in St Pancras in less than 60 seconds. You can even walk between the two of them without going outside. Also they even share the same London Underground station.

Kings Cross platform to a Midland Main Line platform in less than 60 seconds?

Who are you?

Usain Bolt?

 

[gazthomas]

This is a solution trying to find a problem

 

[Aictos]

This is a solution trying to find a problem

Indeed it is simply a waste of resources that would be better used elsewhere.

 

[Adlington]

This is a solution trying to find a problem

Not unusual in this forum....

 

[swt_passenger]

Indeed it's just a solution looking for a problem, after all you have Waterloo East served by South Eastern and London Waterloo served by South Western Railway which serve different routes yet nobody has suggested renaming Waterloo East to London Waterloo with it's platforms being renumbered to Platforms 26 to 29....

I think they have in a past thread, but I think the idea was shouted down fairly quickly.
I’m going with “solution without a problem” in the particular KX/StP case...

 

[jon0844]

They're close but not close enough. Otherwise they could have joined the stations when both were upgraded and had a huge shopping mall in between or something. Only the small matter of the road to deal with, but I guess you could have closed it and must made all taxis go from the other side of St Pancras.

The signage and times for people to get to the right platform would be more like an airport. You'd have to annouce trains way in advance and hope they were ready for boarding. And where would passengers wait so as not to be miles away from their platform?

Basically, there's no way this could ever happen.

 

[Clip]

The connection times between them should be reduced, but I don't think merging them is the answer. 31 minutes is ridiculous really.

How long does it take you to get from Platform 0 to thameslink B?

 

[yorksrob]

I think it would make things more confusing for new passengers. At the moment, where your train is leaving from is narrowed down to either one or the other. With this change, a new passenger would have to work out where to get to in a station twice the size.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think it would make things more confusing for new passengers. At the moment, where your train is leaving from is narrowed down to either one or the other. With this change, a new passenger would have to work out where to get to in a station twice the size.

Agree, a long distance passenger heading via Waterloo to the North East or Scotland, such as me in the 70s, could manage quite well without ever needing to be aware of St Pancras at all, other than it being another London station that appeared on maps and diagrams.

There’s a risk of losing the national picture if looking at things purely from the perspective of GN & TL suburban areas via Finsbury Park.

 

[yorksrob]

Agree, a long distance passenger heading via Waterloo to the North East or Scotland, such as me in the 70s, could manage quite well without ever needing to be aware of St Pancras at all, other than it being another London station that appeared on maps and diagrams.

There’s a risk of losing the national picture if looking at things purely from the perspective of GN & TL suburban areas via Finsbury Park.

They're helpfully quite visually distinctive as well. One can quite easily spot the yellow building with the big windows or the big red pointy one.

 

[Antman]

I've often thought both should be called Kings Cross with the St Pancras name gradually dropped but I'm probably in a minority? I overheard somebody on a train heading for Kings Cross talking about getting a taxi to St Pancras for HS1 until somebody pointed out that they were virtually the same station.

 

[VT 390]

I do not think they should share the same name or platform numbering but I do think that the Thameslink platforms should be renamed as Kings Cross St Pancras because now Thameslink run services to the Great Northern route as well some passengers may go to Kings Cross and not realise that Thameslink services depart from just across the road to the same place. Also the minimum connection time should be dropped to 15 minutes.

 

[superalbs]

How long does it take you to get from Platform 0 to thameslink B?

I've done 1 to A in five. 15 across the entire complex would be ample.

 

[Clip]

I've done 1 to A in five. 15 across the entire complex would be ample.

And thats you at a quick pace without large bags nor a disability. Dont even try to say different as I worked there long enough to know it can still be a trek for the normal person let alone the average punter who may know where they are going but will still walk normally. Nor from right at the back of a train on platform one

and then we get onto those whose mobility is impaired.

The connection time is fine - please dont think that just because you can get a wriggle on as you know where you are going that everyone is just like you because they are not

 

[DanTrain]

I've done 1 to A in five. 15 across the entire complex would be ample.

Are you sure... getting from the EMT platforms, through the shopping mall, finally finding the underpassage, through to Kings Cross, up and along to platform 0 could take well over 15 mins. Add to that the number of international passengers or those who aren’t from London who may not know the stations, the fact that trains may be a few minutes late and that these are Intercity trains where walking the length of the train could take 2-3 minues for someone who’s young/elderly/not too fit and 15 mins sounds very tight indeed.

Would maybe 20/25 mins be more of a compromise, or perhaps less off the Thameslink trains as commuters/locals tend to know where they’re going.

 

[Killingworth]

St Pancras is already 4 mainline stations in one before adding in the Underground and Kings Cross as well. Fine for regular users but finding the way around corridors and escalators is mind numbing for those unfamiliar with the layout. Having used Kings Cross since the 1960s I'm still finding different routes between the various parts of LKXSP.

I've sprinted from one to the other, shimmied around dawdling citizens in no hurry at all, found an escalator out of order, but arrived at the barrier with, I thought, 2 minutes to spare - only to find it closed. Yes, you need to allow at least 15 minutes connection time!

 

[whhistle]

I've done 1 to A in five. 15 across the entire complex would be ample.

Add to that the number of international passengers or those who aren’t from London who may not know the stations...

Let alone domestic passengers who don't seem to be able to process information as quick as others.

 

[scotrail158713]

I do not think they should share the same name or platform numbering but I do think that the Thameslink platforms should be renamed as Kings Cross St Pancras because now Thameslink run services to the Great Northern route as well some passengers may go to Kings Cross and not realise that Thameslink services depart from just across the road to the same place. Also the minimum connection time should be dropped to 15 minutes.

Having read through the thread this seems the most sensible idea.
(Mind you I’m in Scotland so am certainly not an expert )

 

[greatkingrat]

Don't forget that if Crossrail 2 is ever built, there will be a joint Euston / KXSP station. So presumably then you would have to add all the Euston platforms to your numbering system as well!

 

[Giugiaro]

It would be rather embarrassing seeing a passenger arriving at King's X 2 minutes before departure and not figuring out where in the depths of hell is platform 24.

 

[MarkyT]

I'd prefer to see all three Euston Road major stations considered to be part of a major 'North London International Railport' complex while still retaining their existing terminal identities and platform number series in the same way as airports have individual terminal and gate IDs.