Should Northern scrap direct trains between Cumbria and Manchester?

[507020]

I think you've got Kirkby and Atherton backwards.

Yes, one of the Athertons extends to Kirkby. I'm pointing out that this situation is satisfactory (and long-established, having been the case for 30+ years) and thus running via Bolton is not necessary.

Yes I meant to Kirkby, via Atherton. If that has been the case for 30 years or more, why does the sign at Bolton say this platform for trains to Kirkby?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes I meant to Kirkby, via Atherton. If that has been the case for 30 years or more, why does the sign at Bolton say this platform for trains to Kirkby?

I have no idea - I don't recall Kirkby trains ever having run via Bolton in my lifetime. It was mostly Southport via Bolton (though there have been times that went via Atherton, and the 1990s Victoria peak extras did), and always Kirkby via Atherton, or for a time it was just a shuttle to Wallgate bay. Engineering diversions perhaps?

 

[Starmill]

Yes I meant to Kirkby, via Atherton. If that has been the case for 30 years or more, why does the sign at Bolton say this platform for trains to Kirkby?

There's a sign at Hindley that says for one platform there are trains to Crewe and the other to Liverpool. There's one at East Garforth pointing out trains to Scarborough, and one at Wateringbury about trains to Gatwick Airport. Needless to say these have been defunct for decades. I'd just ignore these signs as they're so often wrong.

 

[507020]

There's a sign at Hindley that says for one platform there are trains to Crewe and the other to Liverpool. There's one at East Garforth pointing out trains to Scarborough, and one at Wateringbury about trains to Gatwick Airport. Needless to say these have been defunct for decades. I'd just ignore these signs as they're so often wrong.

And at Clitheroe that says trains to Hellifield and Carlisle. The one at Bolton is actually quite accurate because you can change for Kirkby and there are direct trains when the Atherton line is shut. At Todmorden another sign has been tacked onto the bottom saying And Blackburn.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And at Clitheroe that says trains to Hellifield and Carlisle.

There are trains to Hellifield and Carlisle from Clitheroe, albeit only once a week (and decidedly flakily in these COVID times). That's there quite deliberately.

 

[BeccaOnATrain]

I sure hope not.. I've gone to a few destinations in Cumbria multiple times over the past few months simply because of how easy it is to get a train there from Manchester.. The Barrow service is often very busy at peak times in both directions.

Manchester to Arnside in an hour and a half.. don't take that away!

 

[Elecman]

I sure hope not.. I've gone to a few destinations in Cumbria multiple times over the past few months simply because of how easy it is to get a train there from Manchester.. The Barrow service is often very busy at peak times in both directions.

Manchester to Arnside in half an hour.. don't take that away!

Your. Half hour to Arnsde s somewhat out. You can’t even get to Preston 30 minutes from Manchester

 

[Bletchleyite]

Your. Half hour to Arnsde s somewhat out. You can’t even get to Preston 30 minutes from Manchester

It's an hour and 30 minutes, roughly!

 

[BeccaOnATrain]

It's an hour and 30 minutes, roughly!

Ha, yeah. Typo.

I've also done holidays up that route with having to change at Preston/Lancaster before but it is so much easier going to those sorts of destinations from Manchester direct esp. when carrying luggage. Presuming the cost of flights and holidays abroad meaning people look to visit locally for their trips away to escape the city at weekends.. these destinations are going to become more popular in the future? Hopefully anyway.

 

[30907]

There are trains to Hellifield and Carlisle from Clitheroe, albeit only once a week (and decidedly flakily in these COVID times). That's there quite deliberately.

Quite. And those are the only passenger departures from that platform (the rest being ECS shunts).

 

[paul1609]

Windermere should be electrified and gain an hourly 4 car 331 through service to Manchester. Barrow should start back at Preston, as the connections are much better than Lancaster and it is only a short section of under the wires running.

Alternatively order new bi modes (or have TPE use 80x) and leave as is.

Whenever I've used the Manchester to Windermere service joining at Preston going north. The train has emptied as I join at Preston and is practically empty until Oxenholme where it fills up again. This has usually been on weekends during the football season but based on my experience I'd question whether there's all day demand for a through service all day. What about a couple of through peak workings with a oxenholme shuttle for the remainder?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whenever I've used the Manchester to Windermere service joining at Preston going north. The train has emptied as I join at Preston and is practically empty until Oxenholme where it fills up again. This has usually been on weekends during the football season but based on my experience I'd question whether there's all day demand for a through service all day. What about a couple of through peak workings with a oxenholme shuttle for the remainder?

I suspect part of this is because of the bad timings with the long wait at Oxenholme - it can be quicker to take a following service and change.

I've observed similar of the Barrow, that said - when I've used it it's either been locals going to/from Lancaster or connections much more to London than Manchester, and then an almost entirely separate Preston-Manchester fast. With well-timed connections to/from the Scottish TPEs (this is the UK, right) you could get away with not running these to Manchester at all; 3tph Preston<->Lancaster (two Avantis in normal times and a TPE) is still decent.

I have wondered about the idea of Lancaster P1/2 being turned into a "Lakes and Furness Lines" ministation with it all based there with dedicated, branded units, a bit like the way the S&C and "Hadrian's Wall Line" bit at Carlisle.

 

[cle]

I suspect part of this is because of the bad timings with the long wait at Oxenholme - it can be quicker to take a following service and change.

I've observed similar of the Barrow, that said - when I've used it it's either been locals going to/from Lancaster or connections much more to London than Manchester, and then an almost entirely separate Preston-Manchester fast. With well-timed connections to/from the Scottish TPEs (this is the UK, right) you could get away with not running these to Manchester at all; 3tph Preston<->Lancaster (two Avantis in normal times and a TPE) is still decent.

I have wondered about the idea of Lancaster P1/2 being turned into a "Lakes and Furness Lines" ministation with it all based there with dedicated, branded units, a bit like the way the S&C and "Hadrian's Wall Line" bit at Carlisle.

Lancaster could be used more as a northerly version of Preston - a little quieter there - to hub out on the various lines. It has its own route over to Leeds too of course.

1-2tph to Barrow/around, start some Windermeres there perhaps. Morecambe shuttles too.

In turn, run hourly Manchester - Glasgow and Manchester - Edinburgh instead. Via Bolton as Wigan has those already. Skip-stop Oxenholme/Penrith, Lockerbie as again others cover those.

There will be Liverpool-Glasgow services too, but maybe aim for hourly Liverpool to Lancaster to make these connections.

 

[Some guy]

I suspect part of this is because of the bad timings with the long wait at Oxenholme - it can be quicker to take a following service and change.

I've observed similar of the Barrow, that said - when I've used it it's either been locals going to/from Lancaster or connections much more to London than Manchester, and then an almost entirely separate Preston-Manchester fast. With well-timed connections to/from the Scottish TPEs (this is the UK, right) you could get away with not running these to Manchester at all; 3tph Preston<->Lancaster (two Avantis in normal times and a TPE) is still decent.

I have wondered about the idea of Lancaster P1/2 being turned into a "Lakes and Furness Lines" ministation with it all based there with dedicated, branded units, a bit like the way the S&C and "Hadrian's Wall Line" bit at Carlisle.

Lancaster and Preston needs 4tph it’s a very busy stretch of track a lot of people alight at those stops