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Should the Borderland line service be split at Wrexham General?

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zwk500

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What about splitting the line, having it run to Wrexham General only, and having a shuttle between there and Central a la the Cardiff Bay shuttle?
Would certainly help, as you then have a 55-minute end-to-end journey so it's 5' turnrounds every time which means a 2-hourly return trip is perfectly feasible, giving a 2-unit hourly service if they wanted, with a 3rd shuttling up and down. It wouldn't even need any infrastructure at Wrexham as the shuttle would stay on the old Exchange platform while the Bidston trains use 3.
However, the unit shuttling to Wrexham general will be hanging around at Wrexham for an awfully long time doing very little, given how many train it has to connect with.
 

markymark2000

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What about splitting the line, having it run to Wrexham General only, and having a shuttle between there and Central a la the Cardiff Bay shuttle?
The key difference with Cardiff Bay line is the amount of onward connections available and the fact that the distance is just enough for a shuttle. Wrexham General to Central is literally a 5 minute walk. If anything, there is a bigger business case for closing Wrexham Central or making it into a parliamentary service given it rarely sees any trains. There are some benefits to this as well such as from Platform 3 at Wrexham General, it gives a much better interchange between the longer distance trains.

You could run a class 139 and still be over capacity on this part of the line. It is merely a useful link but doesn't really provide anything for the rail network and wouldn't really inconvenience people if it wasn't there.


Short term, while the 230s are still starting up, there is 100% an arguement to curtail the 230s at Wrexham General. Anyone wanting central can walk the few minutes or use the rail replacement buses which are stopping at Central.
 

Foxcover

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What about splitting the line, having it run to Wrexham General only, and having a shuttle between there and Central a la the Cardiff Bay shuttle?
And use the 5 mins saved at the other end to run through to Birkenhead North perhaps, once the 230s start saving the minutes they’re capable of?
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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And use the 5 mins saved at the other end to run through to Birkenhead North perhaps, once the 230s start saving the minutes they’re capable of?
Haven't earlier postings spoke of the reasons why an extension from Bidston to Birkenhead North would be operationally difficult as it would pose problems for the other services on the West Kirby and the New Brighton lines?
 

norbitonflyer

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What about splitting the line, having it run to Wrexham General only, and having a shuttle between there and Central a la the Cardiff Bay shuttle?
If you're going to use a third unit, it would be more useful to increase the layover times at each end (as I said above, you would get about 20 minutes as the bay platform at Birkenhead North is a better place to do this than occupying a running line at Bidston)
 

DLAYKEGER

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A lot of passengers are shopping in Wrexham centre nearer to central and would not want transfer between platform 4 to possiby platform 3.with bags. They would either walk from / to general or get bus to the bus station nearer the shops
 

Bletchleyite

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This was looked at years ago and - short of some huge infrastructure cost emerging - doesn't make any sense.

It appears that taking a few minutes off the running time would improve resilience - the two unit hourly timetable is too tight, with a silly situation where the northbound is scheduled to leave Central before it has arrived. Closing Central would do this without much inconvenience other than those going to the retail park in which it sits.
 

MarkyT

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It appears that taking a few minutes off the running time would improve resilience - the two unit hourly timetable is too tight, with a silly situation where the northbound is scheduled to leave Central before it has arrived. Closing Central would do this without much inconvenience other than those going to the retail park in which it sits.
Better performing modern stock on such a frequently stopping service should be able to shave a bit off each point-to-point timing. Current times are for sprinters so perhaps D-trains supplementing their diesel output with hybrid batteries might perform a little better.
 

Meerkat

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Are there accurate splits for how many passengers use Central?
Looking at the map the route would be more useful as an active travel route for access to General/town centre/hospital
 

Bletchleyite

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Are there accurate splits for how many passengers use Central?
Looking at the map the route would be more useful as an active travel route for access to General/town centre/hospital

Would it? Having looked it takes a longer route than the road does. By road it's about 0.4km, far shorter than at Chester or for that matter Stourbridge.
 

Meerkat

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Would it? Having looked it takes a longer route than the road does. By road it's about 0.4km, far shorter than at Chester or for that matter Stourbridge.
TO General/town centre/hospital from other places more than between those three places.
 

Bevan Price

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Could they revise the destinations of the services ?
For example, hourly Bidston to Shrewsbury, and hourly shuttles, Wrexham Central to Chester (maybe extending some of those to North Wales)
 

MarkyT

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Could they revise the destinations of the services ?
For example, hourly Bidston to Shrewsbury, and hourly shuttles, Wrexham Central to Chester (maybe extending some of those to North Wales)
The junction connections for all of that don't exist today, although additional points might plausibly be provided at some expense. Would introduce additional conflicts however. The Bidson - Wrexham service doesn't impact on the Chester - Shrewsbury axis at all currently.
 

Kite159

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Reduce Wrexham Central to be certain trains only with everything else getting spun at Wrexham General to improve timekeeping.

Something similar to the timetable ran during Covid (where extra time was needed at Wrexham for cab cleaning).
 

sefyllian

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I know having a clockface timetable is the ideal, but since the timing’s so tight on this line, and causing so many problems, wouldn’t it be better just to accept it isn’t possible to run a perfectly hourly service?

The frequency is due to increase from 60min to every 30min, but why not just change to, say, 40min frequency instead? It’s still a decent increase, and leaves loads of slack for turnaround and delays, plus possibly an extension to Birkenhead North, without having to skip any stations.

Obviously the timetable would be less memorable, but a repeating 0800, 0840, 0920, 1000 pattern seems easy enough to remember (i.e. 4 diagrams allowing 2h40m for a full round trip). The line’s more or less self-contained isn’t it, so paths wouldn’t be a problem would they?
 

Kite159

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At least in theory if it's made to be every 30 minutes then some of the smaller stations which are close together so there is little traffic between them, can be skipped-stopped to help improve time keeping.
 

Cestrian

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Would it be feasible for a semi-fast and a stopper? Semi-Fast to General with maybe stops at Caergwrle, Buckley, Hawarden, Shotton, Neston, Heswall, Upton and Bidston? Stopper then doing all of them?
 

Basil Jet

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Would it be feasible for a semi-fast and a stopper? Semi-Fast to General with maybe stops at Caergwrle, Buckley, Hawarden, Shotton, Neston, Heswall, Upton and Bidston? Stopper then doing all of them?
I was wondering about an hourly semi fast to Oswestry and an hourly stopper to Central, but I'm not sure that helps with the timing problem.
 

Ianigsy

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Would it be feasible for a semi-fast and a stopper? Semi-Fast to General with maybe stops at Caergwrle, Buckley, Hawarden, Shotton, Neston, Heswall, Upton and Bidston? Stopper then doing all of them?
Either that, or as a halfway house you could turn the stopper back at Shotton and reverse in Dee Marsh. Most of the business on the line is on the Welsh half because as anybody who’s ever tried a rail replacement bus on that route knows, most of the road network in the area is based on Chester and Mold.
 
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