Signalling Failure WCML Oxenholme Penrith Fri 29 Sep

[Innerhome1]

According to the National Rail Enquiries website there was a signalling power failure. As far as I can see nothing moved between Oxenholme - Penrith (both ways) between around 12.00 and 14:30 on Friday - with subsequent massive disruption to the Avanti timetable.
Does anyone know what actually happened ?
If this was signalling failure would there normally be options for some form of emergency working allowing trains through the affected area with drivers phoning or radioing through to the signallers once they had passed through and reached working signalling ?

 

[hexagon789]

According to the National Rail Enquiries website there was a signalling power failure. As far as I can see nothing moved between Oxenholme - Penrith (both ways) between around 12.00 and 14:30 on Friday - with subsequent massive disruption to the Avanti timetable.
Does anyone know what actually happened ?
If this was signalling failure would there normally be options for some form of emergency working allowing trains through the affected area with drivers phoning or radioing through to the signallers once they had passed through and reached working signalling ?

Rat(s) chewed through cable(s) was what I read on another forum.

 

[EC54]

I'm heading that way this Fri Edin to Birmingham then Birmingham to Southampton for a cruise the following day.
Looks like I would have been stranded at Preston if it had been last fri

 

[Oxfordblues]

Yes, it seems that one hungry rat chewing a cable can bring the entire WCML (North) to a complete omnishambles. Can't the cables be put in concrete troughs? Can't rat-poison be put in the troughs with them?

 

[75A]

Rats have rights too you know...................................

 

[Stampy]

It'd be one CRISPY Rat though....

 

[6Gman]

Yes, it seems that one hungry rat chewing a cable can bring the entire WCML (North) to a complete omnishambles. Can't the cables be put in concrete troughs? Can't rat-poison be put in the troughs with them?

Yes.

Yes.

But the rats can still get in and will have polished off the cable long before any poison takes effect.

 

[dk1]

Yes, it seems that one hungry rat chewing a cable can bring the entire WCML (North) to a complete omnishambles. Can't the cables be put in concrete troughs? Can't rat-poison be put in the troughs with them?

Knocked out Ely and the Norwich, Peterborough & Kings Lynn routes radiating from it last week for the same reason. Very difficult problem to solve.

 

[BrummieBobby]

If this was signalling failure would there normally be options for some form of emergency working allowing trains through the affected area with drivers phoning or radioing through to the signallers once they had passed through and reached working signalling ?

Emergency Special Working is a possibility in these circumstances (Failure of signalling equipment on a TCB line) however, all of the following must apply:

The section affected must be clear of trains (So if there are 10 trains in the section affected, all must be individually authorised past individual signals at danger.)
Any points lacking detection on the signaller's panel / workstation must be clipped by staff on the ground
ESW must be authorised by a LOM or higher
Limits of the ESW section must be agreed and communicated to each driver to pass through the section, only one train may pass the ESW section at a time, a ticket must be completed by the driver.
Any level crossings must have their barriers lowered for the duration.

Given the amount of time ESW takes to set up, given the lack of ground staff to secure points, given the disruption involved, unfortunately it isn't as simple as it may seem to get things moving again following a catastrophic signalling failure.

 

[Innerhome1]

Thanks to those who replied - and thanks to BrummieBobby for going through the detailed requirements for ESW.

 

[randyrippley]

It'd be one CRISPY Rat though....

Just wait until the beaver population expands........Oxenholme-Penrith along the Lune Gorge would be ideal for them

 

[Skiddaw]

A friend of mine travelling back to Penrith from London was caught up in it. Train sat at Oxenholme for 3 hours. At least they opened the doors and allowed people off the train.

 

[Carlisle]

Train sat at Oxenholme for 3 hours. At least they opened the doors and allowed people off the train.

That, where possible appears to be standard practice nowadays rather than a queue of trains at the blockage point but perhaps in the middle of nowhere.

 

[zwk500]

That, where possible appears to be standard practice nowadays rather than a queue of trains at the blockage point but perhaps in the middle of nowhere.

Yes, platforming trains where possible is the preferred approach. Including sometimes getting trains already platformed to offload passengers or shunt clear to allow non-platformed trains in. Most reversals are set up either in or just beyond platforms, and having a platform means people can choose to get off and make their own way home/onwards, and if anybody needs assistance staff or emergency services can give immediate aid rather than needing to access the track.

 

[david1212]

To me the surprising thing is at least on major / busy routes that there are not duplicate / parallel cables for both power and control / data. Momentarily there might be a total power trip but the undamaged circuit should either automatically reset or be quickly resettable remotely. Even if no trip as an open circuit there would be a requirement to acknowledge the loss of one cable / communication path before running can resume. If a specific signal was put out of use the section would be extended to be between the preceding and following signals. For power one step back would be configuring as short sections that can be isolated and multiple feeds.
Of course some delay but not nothing moving for 2 - 3 hours.

 

[gaillark]

It'd be one CRISPY Rat though....

Jokingly ...
New item for the buffet menu given that there would be many hungry passengers with that delay!

 

[Bald Rick]

To me the surprising thing is at least on major / busy routes that there are not duplicate / parallel cables for both power and control / data.

There are for Modern installations.

Carlisle PSB has just turned 50.

 

[najaB]

To me the surprising thing is at least on major / busy routes that there are not duplicate / parallel cables for both power and control / data.

As @Bald Rick points out, newer installations do tend to duplicate things - which gives the rats twice the opportunity to chew through a cable. And, of course, the usual time to find out that there's a problem with the backup system is right after the main system fails. My go-to example of how backup/duplicate systems can sometimes be more trouble than they're worth is the call centre I used to work for: full backup power provided by a generator, tested regularly. During one test the transfer switch failed in the generator position - turns out the fuel tank's capacity ran the generator for less time than it took to get the engineers out to fix the switch...

 

[sharpener]

Where I used to work there was a backup genny which was tested monthly. On one occasion the maintenance manager thought he would be clever and put the starting battery on boost charge afterwards. The week after there was a real power cut and nothing happened, the battery had boiled dry.

 

[david1212]

As @Bald Rick points out, newer installations do tend to duplicate things - which gives the rats twice the opportunity to chew through a cable. And, of course, the usual time to find out that there's a problem with the backup system is right after the main system fails. My go-to example of how backup/duplicate systems can sometimes be more trouble than they're worth is the call centre I used to work for: full backup power provided by a generator, tested regularly. During one test the transfer switch failed in the generator position - turns out the fuel tank's capacity ran the generator for less time than it took to get the engineers out to fix the switch...

To my thinking anyway your example of a backup generator for the loss of the primary supply is rather different. One I get regularly is a brand new spare PC that has been sat for years on the shelf not working. When the installed PC fails and the spare is fitted either a) the BIOS battery is flat so the settings are corrupt, particularly the boot drive or the drive port and and/or b) at least one of the add-in cards not making good contact in the motherboard slot.

For rail the cables / data paths / systems would be not be primary or secondary but shared. Each would be monitored for a fault. While so-and-so's law will strike from time to time the overall disruption ought to be significantly reduced.

 

[najaB]

To my thinking anyway your example of a backup generator for the loss of the primary supply is rather different. One I get regularly is a brand new spare PC that has been sat for years on the shelf not working. When the installed PC fails and the spare is fitted either a) the BIOS battery is flat so the settings are corrupt, particularly the boot drive or the drive port and and/or b) at least one of the add-in cards not making good contact in the motherboard slot.

For rail the cables / data paths / systems would be not be primary or secondary but shared. Each would be monitored for a fault. While so-and-so's law will strike from time to time the overall disruption ought to be significantly reduced.

I get that and yes, more often than not they will work as designed, but there's always the question of if the cost of maintaining dual systems is worth it compared to the loss incurred when a non-duplicated system fails.

Yes, having the WCML sat down for three or four hours is going to be massively disruptive, but how often does it happen and would it be cheaper overall to simply use cables with thicker, more rat resistant sheaths?

 

[Bald Rick]

My go-to example of how backup/duplicate systems can sometimes be more trouble than they're worth is the call centre I used to work for: full backup power provided by a generator, tested regularly. During one test the transfer switch failed in the generator position - turns out the fuel tank's capacity ran the generator for less time than it took to get the engineers out to fix the switch...

A similar railway example is the regular crash test of standby generators for the signalling system. It’s been proven that (for some systems) doing this creates enough stress on the power system that it is more likely to fail…

 

[Oxfordblues]

With HS2 much in the news I wonder if the power and signalling cables for the new line will be installed in rat-proof troughing. Imagine the press coverage if HS2 trains are stopped by one hungry rat!

 

[zwk500]

With HS2 much in the news I wonder if the power and signalling cables for the new line will be installed in rat-proof troughing. Imagine the press coverage if HS2 trains are stopped by one hungry rat!

Given what Rats can do, is anything truly rat-proof unless it is itself electrified?