Signalling Problem near Berwick (27/03)

[Narrowgauge725]

Just had a long wait at Scremerston level crossing. North bound train crawled through south bound at line speed.

LNER site reports signalling problem south of Berwick Upon Tweed. What signalling problem would still allow trains to continue at a slow speed? Gates on crossing went up and down as normal.

 

[zwk500]

Just had a long wait at Scremerston level crossing. North bound train crawled through south bound at line speed.

LNER site reports signalling problem south of Berwick Upon Tweed. What signalling problem would still allow trains to continue at a slow speed? Gates on crossing went up and down as normal.

Speculatively, an equipment failure holding the signal at Red, requires talking past at caution.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just had a long wait at Scremerston level crossing. North bound train crawled through south bound at line speed.

LNER site reports signalling problem south of Berwick Upon Tweed. What signalling problem would still allow trains to continue at a slow speed? Gates on crossing went up and down as normal.

Trains may have to be cautioned over the crossing if the signalling either side of the crossing is faulty.

 

[voyagerdude220]

It's been reported as being a Track Circuit Failure. As others have said, it's likely trains are being cautioned (allowed to proceed through the affected section at a much lower speed than usual) because of the fault.

 

[wysall]

I was on the 0953 from Newcastle to Berwick this morning. Train slowed then came to a stop around Cocklawburn beach (made for a nice view at least); no announcement made and we arrived in Berwick-upon-Tweed ten minutes late or so.

 

[Narrowgauge725]

Thanks

I was on the 0953 from Newcastle to Berwick this morning. Train slowed then came to a stop around Cocklawburn beach (made for a nice view at least); no announcement made and we arrived in Berwick-upon-Tweed ten minutes late or so.

i could have waved to you we were sat having a coffee enjoying the view

 

[800001]

Track Circuit was showing occupied whilst clear.
All down services were being stopped and cautioned/talked past the signal at Scremerston Level Crossing
Normal working resumed around 11:15.

 

[wysall]

LNER now saying that there are delays between Alnmouth and Berwick due to a train ‘hitting an obstruction’.

 

[Narrowgauge725]

LNER now saying that there are delays between Alnmouth and Berwick due to a train ‘hitting an obstruction’.

Realtimetrains reports "train hit bird"

 

[800001]

Realtimetrains reports "train hit bird"

Struck a pheasant which has caused an air leak that can’t be fixed.
Train returning to Berwick to detrain then going empty to Craigentinny

 

[dan4291]

Struck a pheasant which has caused an air leak that can’t be fixed.
Train returning to Berwick to retrain then going empty to Craigentinny

With the amount of pheasants hit by trains that's incredibly unlucky!

 

[father_jack]

Struck a pheasant which has caused an air leak that can’t be fixed.
Train returning to Berwick to detrain then going empty to Craigentinny

Pigeon !!!

 

[800001]

Pigeon !!!

Pheasant.

Tweedmouth signaller stated Pigeon, LNER state Pheasant! Including the driver, and please there is no need to do exclamation marks.

See attached from Lner

The driver of 1E18 14:00 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross [unit 801222], had reported striking a pheasant causing damage to service.

 

[D6130]

It's very unlikely that striking a pigeon would cause an air leak....but a big, fat, heavy pheasant is a totally different ball game!

 

[800001]

It's very unlikely that striking a pigeon would cause an air leak....bit a big, fat, heavy pheasant is a totally different ball game!

It is possible a pigeon could cause an air leak, all depending on what if hits, it has happened before.

But everything from LNER states Pheasant.

It’s NWR stating Pigeon.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The difference between a pheasant and a pigeon is probably liability and associated cost. LNER may have to take the hit if its one, Network Rail if its the other......

Not exactly sure on the precise rules to be honest however in a lot of cases network rail have a clearly defined responsibilty and liability where trains hit certain items whereas the adjoining landowner, TOC/FOC, DfT, Highways etc would be liable for others

 

[ComUtoR]

Pigeons tend to bounce off. Pheasants tend to explode. They make an awful noise.

However, it depends where they hit. Doesn't matter which bird it was. Striking something fragile will result in failure.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Pigeon !!!

Pheasant!

Aaaaaaalbatross!!

 

[zwk500]

The difference between a pheasant and a pigeon is probably liability and associated cost. LNER may have to take the hit if its one, Network Rail if its the other......

Not exactly sure on the precise rules to be honest however in a lot of cases network rail have a clearly defined responsibilty and liability where trains hit certain items whereas the adjoining landowner, TOC/FOC, DfT, Highways etc would be liable for others

This rings a bell with me as well, although I can't remember the official rules.

 

[plugwash]

I don't recall the exact rules, but my vauge memory is that smaller animals are considered "normal" and therefore it's the TOCs problem if one of them causes a failure, while larger animals are cosnidered something that shouldn't be on the track in the first place.

 

[class 9]

It's very unlikely that striking a pigeon would cause an air leak....but a big, fat, heavy pheasant is a totally different ball game!

I don't know, when you hit one at 125 it makes a hell of a bang!

 

[Haywain]

I don't recall the exact rules, but my vauge memory is that smaller animals are considered "normal" and therefore it's the TOCs problem if one of them causes a failure, while larger animals are cosnidered something that shouldn't be on the track in the first place.

There doesn't appear to be a distinction in the case of birds now, although there certainly was a few years ago.

 

[D6130]

I don't know, when you hit one at 125 it makes a hell of a bang!

....and when you hit a pheasant at 60 mph it also makes a hell of a bang, as I found out one autumn morning on the Settle-Carlisle line! 20 mph all the way from Langwathby to Skipton with a shattered windscreen and blood and feathers all over me and the desk. Well over two hours' delay.

 

[class 9]

Oh dear, that doesn't sound pleasant!! I'd have had it out of service, crossover at Culgaith & back to Carlisle.

 

[Llanigraham]

I remember on one of my track experience runs down the Marches in a 158 having a pigeon hitting the front door and causing a massive bang and it to bow inwards for a second. Made me jump!
I can certainly remember a unit reporting as failing after a pheasant hit the front coupling and broke something. And don't start me on deer!

 

[zwk500]

I remember on one of my track experience runs down the Marches in a 158 having a pigeon hitting the front door and causing a massive bang and it to bow inwards for a second. Made me jump!
I can certainly remember a unit reporting as failing after a pheasant hit the front coupling and broke something. And don't start me on deer!

Deer are undeniably big though. I don't think anybody would surprised that a Deer could do some damage to the front of a train, whereas a Pidgeon is less obvious how it might damage a train.

 

[D6130]

Oh dear, that doesn't sound pleasant!! I'd have had it out of service, crossover at Culgaith & back to Carlisle.

This was back in the mid-1990s with a 156 and we had already left Langwathby when the pheasant strike happened. Could have detrained the passengers at Appleby, which was staffed, but in those days Appleby box was switched-out, so we would have had to continue to Kirkby Stephen to cross over....but, by that time we would have been nearly half way home to Skipton so, as it was a dry day and not too cold, we carried on. Another 156 was attached to the front at Skipton for a linespeed run into Leeds, while I booked off and went home for a shower.

Bringing the thread back on topic, I would imagine that the windsxreens of Azumas, Pendolini, etc. are much stronger and with better reinforcement....plus - being inclined, rather than vertical, are more likely to deflect a bird's body.

 

[Llanigraham]

Deer are undeniably big though. I don't think anybody would surprised that a Deer could do some damage to the front of a train, whereas a Pidgeon is less obvious how it might damage a train.

We had escaped Munkjac around Bromfield and they aren't very big, but agreed can still do a lot of damage.

 

[Falcon1200]

There doesn't appear to be a distinction in the case of birds now, although there certainly was a few years ago.

There was indeed, and it was sometimes ridiculed (eg 'Delay Attribution nonsense'), but there was logic behind it, in that it was considered reasonable for a train to cope with a small bird strike, so any failure so caused was a TOC responsibility, but not a larger and heavier animal, which was therefore Network Rail's. Although how Network Rail was supposed to prevent a large bird colliding with a train is another issue!

 

[Purple Train]

Although how Network Rail was supposed to prevent a large bird colliding with a train is another issue!

Judging by the DfT's current approach to "solving" safety issues, I imagine a station announcement will appear in due course. "If you are a large bird, do NOT go anywhere near the tracks." Presumably it will also be said in a combination of irritating condescension and an annoying shout.

I presume nothing could actually be done to avoid bird strikes in future though, although hopefully rolling stock design in the future will reduce the likelihood of such incidents disabling the train.