Slowest and fastest services in continental Europe

[PTR 444]

The thread on slowest and fastest average speeds in the UK got me thinking about the situation with high speed rail in continental Europe. With different countries adopting different methods for constructing high speed rail, there must be quite a lot of disparity between services over a similar distance depending on the country. Paris to Marseille for example runs almost entirely on 186mph LGV lines and must surely be a contender for the service with the fastest average speed in Europe, taking just over 3 hours. Hamburg to Munich on the other hand is a similar distance, but the high speed track is slower, patchier and has several intermediate stops, making it a slower overall journey at 6.5 hours.

 

[Teebs]

I think Paris to Strasbourg might beat Paris to Marseille as LGV Est is 200mph pretty much throughout, so I've done some rough calculations.

I did that journey last week and it was 1h43m to do roughly 440km, which gives an average speed of just over 251km/h. Paris to Marseille is roughly 765km for the train and the fastest service I could find did it in 3h05m, which gives 248km/h, so it might just edge it.

Lille to Marseille or maybe the Disney station to Paris might be faster as the bypass the crawl out of Paris on the slow lines.

Lille to Marseille looks like 965km and the fastest service I found was 4h46m, which gives an average speed of roughly 200km/h.

Marne La Vallee Chessy to Marseille is roughly 740km and the fastest service I found was 3h07m, which gives an average speed of roughly 237km/h.

This is all based on pretty rough calculations and taking a quick look at what was available on SNCF Connect, so I wouldn't take it as gospel.

I wouldn't be surprised if Spain had some pretty competitive high speed services too e.g. on the Barcelona-Madrid line.

Actually a quick bit of work with google suggests Barcelona to Madrid is 620km and you can do it in 2h30m which gives an average speed of 248km/h, which is pretty competitive with the estimates for Paris-Marseille and Paris-Strasbourg.

 

[ainsworth74]

I did Paris to Bordeaux and Marsaille to Paris back in March. By my reckoning the Marseille to Paris trip averaged 138.4mph start to stop whilst Paris to Bordeaux clocked in at average of 160.2mph start to stop.

 

[hexagon789]

The non-stop Marseille/Paris used to take 3 hours dead, as with many TGV services extra time has crept in over the years. Via the LGV the distance is almost exactly 750km.

Strasbourg to Paris Est via the LGV Est is 439km (vs 502 for the classic line). There used to be at least one service timed at 1h46.

Madrid/Barcelona is 620.9km

Linespeeds vary too:

The LGV Sud-Est, though upgraded to 300km/h, has some restrictions to the old 270 limit due to curvature - legacy of being the first line of course. The Mediterranean extension does have the 'test' section of 320 though.

The LGV Est is of course 320 throughout.

The Madrid/Barcelona is 300km/h presently, though briefly operated at 310.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Our Barcelona to Madrid Iryo was supposed to make the journey in 2hr 30min, however it came to a standstill in the Spanish countryside for around quarter of an hour. No intermediate stop in Zaragoza.

The slowest express trains are probably somewhere like Bulgaria.

 

[Austriantrain]

Our Barcelona to Madrid Iryo was supposed to make the journey in 2hr 30min, however it came to a standstill in the Spanish countryside for around quarter of an hour. No intermediate stop in Zaragoza.

The slowest express trains are probably somewhere like Bulgaria.

In my experience, Spanish HS services are timed very conservatively; helping with the „on time“ guarantees of RENFE (50% refund for delays of more than 15 minutes and 100% over 30 for AVE services - at that rate, DB on most days would not earn a single dime.

 

[rg177]

In my experience, Spanish HS services are timed very conservatively; helping with the „on time“ guarantees of RENFE (50% refund for delays of more than 15 minutes and 100% over 30 for AVE services - at that rate, DB on most days would not earn a single dime.

Indeed, I recall taking an AVANT service from Malaga to Seville back in 2016 and we left Cordoba a few minutes late.

Imagine my surprise when Seville was reached something like nine minutes early...

 

[nw1]

I think Paris to Strasbourg might beat Paris to Marseille as LGV Est is 200mph pretty much throughout, so I've done some rough calculations.

I did that journey last week and it was 1h43m to do roughly 440km, which gives an average speed of just over 251km/h.

Major wow for that journey time. Paris to Strasbourg just 20-odd minutes longer than London to Southampton.

I'm semi-familiar with Paris to Strasbourg but via the A4 autoroute, not the train. We went on holiday to the Black Forest in summers 1986 and 1987 from Calais down the A26 (and about 70km of N roads) to Reims and then the A4 to Strasbourg.

Even on autoroutes it seemed a long, long, long way and it was certainly a two-day journey (well, 1.5 as the overnight stops were between Metz and Strasbourg, so not much to do on the second day).

(On the return leg we diverted to Paris so did the entire length of the A4).

With good connections at Paris, the same journey from London these days must be pretty quick.

That said, I have done the LGV from Paris to just outside Marseille, en route to Nice. First stop Aix TGV, I think. That was pretty fast, and of course is much further than Strasbourg, but because I didn't have a personally-experienced road-based point of reference to compare against, it doesn't "seem" so fast even though it actually is.

 

[dutchflyer]

Slowest-at least as advertised as such, must be that Swiss Glacier Express: Chur-Brig-Zermatt, on narrow gauge. Though I did not calculate it.
Depends if you do the end to end or just shorter intermediate sections for newly built Hi-speed. I kind of recall that the later FRench TGV lines-like to Bordeaux, are a little faster in KM/hr-but this may well be, as above explained, for the Est line toward Strasbourg.

 

[peteb]

From experience this year both the Swiss Bernina and Glacier "express" trains are very slow, even though their stops are limited (particularly the Glacier Express).

Excluding some long distance all stations stopping through services (eg: Viareggio to Ventimiglia seems painfully slow) I'd suggest Budapest (Hungary) to Brasov (Romania) is a particularly slow train owing to the very slow line speeds permitted in Romania around Sibiu.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I did Paris to Bordeaux and Marsaille to Paris back in March. By my reckoning the Marseille to Paris trip averaged 138.4mph start to stop whilst Paris to Bordeaux clocked in at average of 160.2mph start to stop.

The LGV extensions from Bordeaux to Toulouse and Montpellier to Beziers will both beat the Paris-Marseille high speed distance when they open.
There is also now a standard gauge link between Atocha and Chamartin stations in Madrid which could lead to some very long through AVE services.

 

[The exile]

Our Barcelona to Madrid Iryo was supposed to make the journey in 2hr 30min, however it came to a standstill in the Spanish countryside for around quarter of an hour. No intermediate stop in Zaragoza.

The slowest express trains are probably somewhere like Bulgaria.

Would guess the daytime Belgrade -Bar gets close in the slowness stakes (I’m excluding overnight trains as their schedules are often deliberately inflated)

 

[Route115?]

Are we talking about track mileage or as the crow flies with the Bernina Express? There is a lot of winding track south of Pontresina.

Journey times are quicker when there is a bus replacement. Its not the same though.

 

[The exile]

Would guess the daytime Belgrade -Bar gets close in the slowness stakes (I’m excluding overnight trains as their schedules are often deliberately inflated)

Now done the maths. In 2018 the Podgorica - Belgrade stretch was approx 260 miles in 10 hrs 29 minutes - roughly 24.75mph.

 

[Fireless]

I'll throw in the german Chiemseebahn for the slowest average speed.
The booked 8 minutes for the 1.91 km long line work out to an average speed of 14.325 km/h.

 

[stuu]

There is also now a standard gauge link between Atocha and Chamartin stations in Madrid which could lead to some very long through AVE services.

They won't beat the Seville-Barcelona direct service for distance though. The current fastest train does that in 5h 50, which is about 184 km/h over ~1080 km

 

[Jamesrob637]

I'll throw in the german Chiemseebahn for the slowest average speed.
The booked 8 minutes for the 1.91 km long line work out to an average speed of 14.325 km/h.

Haha that's just a cute steam train for tourists

 

[Fireless]

Haha that's just a cute steam train for tourists

That's actually what the line was built for in 1887.